Breaking International Law

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merseymouth
Posts: 1996
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby merseymouth » 23 Sep 2020, 5:23pm

Hi, Again, As someone who thinks that the reunification of the Island of Ireland is a good idea, that it would solve the silly border issue at a stroke!
We could then deal in a straightforward way with us being used as an over worn conduit for goods to the Republic.
We could pass the Channel Islands back to France. That would fit in with the process of re-writing history :roll: . MM

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3335
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby roubaixtuesday » 23 Sep 2020, 5:35pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi, Again, As someone who thinks that the reunification of the Island of Ireland is a good idea, that it would solve the silly border issue at a stroke!
We could then deal in a straightforward way with us being used as an over worn conduit for goods to the Republic.
We could pass the Channel Islands back to France. That would fit in with the process of re-writing history :roll: . MM


Excellent points. Should we also hand Kent over to the French to avoid the newly internal proposed border between UK and the Garden of England?

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 23 Sep 2020, 5:36pm

merseymouth wrote:We could pass the Channel Islands back to France.

Who's the "we"... they aren't part of the United Kingdom...

Jonathan

merseymouth
Posts: 1996
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby merseymouth » 23 Sep 2020, 6:04pm

Oh dear, No the Channel Islands are not part of the U.K., nor are the Isle of Man, Rockall and Gibraltar? Isles of Scilly? But I'd wish to keep the last 4.
Especially Gib, venue for the best Motor Grand Prix ever to be recorded! Surprised we haven't been asked to give up all rights to that? MM

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 23 Sep 2020, 8:04pm

merseymouth wrote:Oh dear, No the Channel Islands are not part of the U.K., nor are the Isle of Man, Rockall and Gibraltar? Isles of Scilly? But I'd wish to keep the last 4.

Rockall is part of Scotland (according to the UK, although disputed) and the Isles of Scilly part of England, although there's an extraordinary thread on this forum where a prolific poster tried to deny it.

But who's the "we"?

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 23 Sep 2020, 8:14pm

merseymouth wrote:Especially Gib...

Gibraltar will be put in an appalling position without an agreement.

Its status is disputed and according to its own representatives and the UK relies on... international law. But the Treaty of Utrecht is open to challenge, in part on the grounds of having been agreed under duress.

Its way of life and much of its income depends on easy border crossings to and from Spain and membership of the Single Market.

And if democracy comes into it the people voted 96% to Remain.

merseymouth wrote:Surprised we haven't been asked to give up all rights to that?

Spain's current position is that Gibraltar should be jointly controlled by Spain and the UK.

Jonathan

pete75
Posts: 13268
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby pete75 » 23 Sep 2020, 8:28pm

Jdsk wrote:
pete75 wrote:
bikepacker wrote:If Mrs May's backstop agreement had been accepted by parliament. In the event of no deal where would the "border" have been placed?

There wouldn't have been one. There would have been a customs union between the UK and the EU.

But how about the border between Kent and the rest of the UK?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/23/truck-queues-could-be-7000-long-when-brexit-transition-ends-ministers-warn

Papiere, bitte.

Jonathan


The article linked to quotes George Useless, Secretary of State for the Environment etc as saying "If when they arrive on the other side it's all a bit slipshod and disorganised and therefore chaos* because of failure of EU to plan that's something beyond our control". He's trying to get the blame in already by completely disregarding the fact that the EU has no responsibility for sorting out any of the problems caused by Brexit.

*With queues of 7,000 lorries it certainly sounds as if there will be chaos this side of the channel.

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 23 Sep 2020, 8:30pm

pete75 wrote:With queues of 7,000 lorries it certainly sounds as if there will be chaos this side of the channel.

An opportunity to develop the customs sector, IIRC.

Jonathan

pete75
Posts: 13268
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby pete75 » 23 Sep 2020, 8:37pm

Jdsk wrote:
pete75 wrote:With queues of 7,000 lorries it certainly sounds as if there will be chaos this side of the channel.

An opportunity to develop the customs sector, IIRC.

Jonathan


7,000 long lorry queues is being put about by this Gove chap - he must be part of that Project Fear we heard so much about.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 7136
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Sep 2020, 10:45pm

Jdsk wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Especially Gib...

Gibraltar will be put in an appalling position without an agreement.

Its status is disputed and according to its own representatives and the UK relies on... international law. But the Treaty of Utrecht is open to challenge, in part on the grounds of having been agreed under duress.

Its way of life and much of its income depends on easy border crossings to and from Spain and membership of the Single Market.

And if democracy comes into it the people voted 96% to Remain.

merseymouth wrote:Surprised we haven't been asked to give up all rights to that?

Spain's current position is that Gibraltar should be jointly controlled by Spain and the UK.

Jonathan

Doesn't Gibraltar now have a nice industry hosting online betting companies due to some commercial or taxation reason making it advantageous to base betting companies there?

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 23 Sep 2020, 10:52pm

Yes, that's a big part of the economy.

But at the moment they have financial passporting with the EU... 100 days to go...

Economy of Gibraltar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Gibraltar

Financial Services in Gibraltar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_services_in_Gibraltar

Effect of Brexit on Gibraltar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Brexit_on_Gibraltar

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 1 Oct 2020, 11:07am

"Good morning,
As you know, we had invited our British friends to remove the problematic parts of their draft Internal Market Bill by the end of September.
This draft Bill is – by its very nature – a breach of the obligation of good faith laid down in the Withdrawal Agreement (Article 5).
Moreover, if adopted as is, it will be in full contradiction to the Protocol on Ireland / Northern Ireland.
The deadline lapsed yesterday.
The problematic provisions have not been removed.
Therefore, this morning, the Commission has decided to send a letter of formal notice to the UK government.
This is the first step in an infringement procedure.
The letter invites the UK government to send its observations within a month.
The Commission will continue to work hard towards a full and timely implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement.
We stand by our commitments."


https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_20_1800

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 2841
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby Jdsk » 1 Oct 2020, 11:10am

And now it isn't only Democrats and Congresspeople who have spoken out.

The US Special Envoy to Northern Ireland:
"It's not an immediate threat to the reinstitution of a hard border. Could it play a role in moving in that direction? Yes, which is why I'm here to reflect my government's commitment to the Good Friday Agreement."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/us-president-trump-a-fan-of-irish-history-and-knows-more-about-gerry-adams-than-me-says-ni-special-envoy-mulvaney-39570812.html

Jonathan

reohn2
Posts: 39926
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby reohn2 » 1 Oct 2020, 5:25pm

When dealing with morons jt's only natural you expect moronic behaviour.
Our country(and the USA FTM)is governed by morons.

These are dark days for the UK both in the face of the pandemic but also in the face of a no deal Brexit a double whammy if you will.
The people who'll suffer most are the people who voted for this mad slimey lying government and it's pocket filling financiers.
Things were bad after ten years of mismanagement of the country under Cameron and May governments and their empty promises.But they're about to get far worse.
The electorate fell for their lies and deceit,and as our equally stupid friends across the pond like to say "pay back's a b*tch",so get ready storm's a comin',the like of which us poor devils have never seen in our lifetime.
On the plus side some of us might just learn a lesson needed!........
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mercalia
Posts: 14217
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Breaking International Law

Postby mercalia » 1 Oct 2020, 7:52pm

just to put this into perspective, Germany has I think about 45 and France about 35 of the legal instruments being directed at them by the EU at the moment. so we are in good company.

The infringement procedure is a common tool used by the commission against member states. Last year there were 800 open cases. Germany had 47 pending cases and France 34. Each procedure takes an average of 35 months to complete. As I said previously Germanys constitution allows them to override any international agreement

no one thinks less of those 2 countries?

The BBC in their wisdom or ignorance or bias dont mentioned this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/01/brexit-eu-launches-legal-action-against-uk-for-breaching-withdrawal-agreement