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Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 11:12pm
by Jdsk
Convenient summary of the different reasons the Government has so far put forward for the proposals to breach the Withdrawal Agreement:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfMarkElliott/status/1305958461826629632

Jonathan

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 11:19pm
by Jdsk
roubaixtuesday wrote:We are now tearing up treaties entered into just months ago, building lorry parks, employing bureaucrats in the tens of thousands.

"Ebbsfleet Covid-19 test centre shut to become lorry park"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-54158100

I think this is genuine... but The Onion must be livid.

Jonathan

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 6:21am
by Oldjohnw
Basically, Boris Johnson put something in the oven nine months ago and now disowns it. Story of his life.

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 7:51am
by jgurney
roubaixtuesday wrote: He's either catastrophically incompetent, or an abject liar. There really isn't another option.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 11:14am
by Jdsk
The Representatives' letter:
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache ... it-v.4.pdf

"... disastrous consequences for the Good Friday Agreement and broader process to maintain peace on the island of Ireland..."

"... that the United States Congress will not support any free trade agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom if... "

Jonathan

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:09pm
by Jdsk
Advocate General for Scotland has offered his resignation. But I'm not sure whether this is to do with the principle of observing the law or something to do with internal conflicts in HMG.

Jonathan

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:11pm
by roubaixtuesday
Jdsk wrote:Advocate General for Scotland has offered his resignation. But I'm not sure whether this is to do with the principle of observing the law or something to do with internal conflicts in HMG.

Jonathan


The internal conflict is, at least partly, whether HMG should observe the law...

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 6:19pm
by Jdsk
Screenshot 2020-09-16 at 18.18.18.png

Jonathan

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 6:38pm
by roubaixtuesday
Jdsk wrote:Screenshot 2020-09-16 at 18.18.18.png
Jonathan


Deeply depressing that despite this, the bill will be supported by Tories.

Brick by brick they're taking down the edifice of norms of behaviour that underpin a civilised society.

So far under Johnson: illegally suspended parliament, expelled MPs who challenged him, boycott of the Today programme, ongoing purge of senior civil service, imposed own advisors on chancellor, allowed cummings to use no10 for press conference, and now reneges on international treaty.

Note that none of that list is policy. It's behaviour. He's real and present danger to democracy and good governance.

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 12:11am
by Oldjohnw
So now the Government can break the law so long as parliament gives them a nod through.

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 8:18am
by francovendee
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Screenshot 2020-09-16 at 18.18.18.png
Jonathan


Deeply depressing that despite this, the bill will be supported by Tories.

Brick by brick they're taking down the edifice of norms of behaviour that underpin a civilised society.

So far under Johnson: illegally suspended parliament, expelled MPs who challenged him, boycott of the Today programme, ongoing purge of senior civil service, imposed own advisors on chancellor, allowed cummings to use no10 for press conference, and now reneges on international treaty.

Note that none of that list is policy. It's behaviour. He's real and present danger to democracy and good governance.

It grieves me how this govt. is slowly eroding our respect in the world and the voters who put them in power are silent. I think there's a view that it could be worse if we had a Labour government. :(

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 10:55am
by mercalia
A case where the EU has broken international law

How the EU is breaking its own Lisbon Treaty


We shouldn't be surprised by the EU failing to stick to the rules it made. But what is of greater concern is that as a fundamentally bureaucratic organisation it increasingly puts administrative and managerial criteria ahead of the messy, but essential, need to pay heed to the sensitivities surrounding Europe’s painful historical past (save to manipulate it for bureaucratic ends). This applies as much to its member states as to those who have chosen democratically to leave. Europe’s bloody history was the raison d’être of the European Union; it forgets its past at its peril.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-the-eu-is-breaking-its-own-lisbon-treaty?

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 11:44am
by thirdcrank
Even when it's quoted in bold, I see nothing but opinion. In any event, two wrongs, indeed no amount of wrongs make a right

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 11:56am
by simonineaston
Trouble with Johnson is he's just credible enough to squeeze in under the bar of votability. Says more about our electorate than about the man himself. There is, after all, a similarity to Churchill. Get out the close-up lens, have a good look and any fool can readily see the man has few - if any - redeeming features, but zoom out and look instead at what he aspires to, in its big form, and it's a different story - apparently... We still (mostly) love 'im. Just as Starmer, evidently a fine fellow - intelligent, hard-working, principled and caring - is a harder fellow to adore!

Re: Breaking International Law

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 12:33pm
by Jdsk
mercalia wrote:A case where the EU has broken international law

How the EU is breaking its own Lisbon Treaty


We shouldn't be surprised by the EU failing to stick to the rules it made. But what is of greater concern is that as a fundamentally bureaucratic organisation it increasingly puts administrative and managerial criteria ahead of the messy, but essential, need to pay heed to the sensitivities surrounding Europe’s painful historical past (save to manipulate it for bureaucratic ends). This applies as much to its member states as to those who have chosen democratically to leave. Europe’s bloody history was the raison d’être of the European Union; it forgets its past at its peril.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-the-eu-is-breaking-its-own-lisbon-treaty?

Is that about the EU Parliament sitting in Brussels rather than Brussels and Strasbourg?

That decision was made because of the outbreak, and specifically in order to avoid the need to quarantine staff who moved.
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-european-parliament-limited-session/

And this week the President wrote to the people of Strasbourg on the subject:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/the-president/en/newsroom/sassoli-thank-you-to-the-people-of-strasbourg-we-hope-to-return-as-soon-as-possible

Jonathan

PS: And it was a much smarter decision about ways of working than that of the House of Commons. Not to mention last year's illegal attempt to prevent Parliament sitting at all in the UK... what did the Spectator say about that at the time?