The Brexit thread

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Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Jdsk » 24 Nov 2020, 6:25pm


reohn2
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby reohn2 » 24 Nov 2020, 7:39pm


Yet :shock:
... includes updates on the Portaloos.

Jonathan

Where there's muck there's brass(ask a Tory) :wink:
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Jdsk
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Jdsk » 25 Nov 2020, 2:13pm

al_yrpal wrote:After Brexit proper free movement will end. I would expect that EU tourists visiting the UK will be admitted with a 3 month limit, the same as applies to Brits visiting the EU. . Presumably EU nationals will be able to apply to stay for longer periods if they wish to and that means applying for a Visa. Our borders will be back under our control and expelling EU criminals and keeping them out will become easier too.

Unfortunately the heads of our police and our security services think the precise opposite and have clearly said so in public.

"Committee again expresses deep concerns about security and policing measures post December"
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/446/eu-security-and-justice-subcommittee/news/115520/committee-again-expresses-deep-concerns-about-security-and-policing-measures-post-december/

"Brexit: UK 'will be less safe without EU security deal' - police chief"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54997372

"MI6 spy chief to CANCEL retirement over post-Brexit security fears"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1086984/MI6-chief-cancel-retirement-post-brexit-security-fears

" "Leaving the EU is BAD for our national security': Former MI6 boss Sir John Scarlett says UK will have to cope with reduced intelligence on Islamic terror suspects after Brexit"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8787713/Former-MI6-boss-Sir-John-Scarlett-says-leaving-EU-bad-national-security.html

Experts, huh?

Jonathan

PS: When the UK was a Member State we were able to exclude undesirables from the EU and deport criminals to the EU. And did.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Oldjohnw » 30 Nov 2020, 7:02am

Brexit: taking back what we'd never lost in order to gain what we already have.
John

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 30 Nov 2020, 8:08am

Oldjohnw wrote:Brexit: taking back what we'd never lost in order to gain what we already have.


Including fishing rights?

Before joining the EEC (European Economic Community) in 1973 (which became the European Union in the early 1990s) Britain – like most other countries in the world – controlled its own fishing waters. This was a zone extending 200 nautical miles from a country’s coastline (or the median point if another country is closer than that distance), an area known as a country’s Exclusive Economic Zone. With EEC membership Britain would control a zone just twelve miles from the UK coastline, with the rest of Britain’s waters now part of Europe’s combined Exclusive Economic Zone and controlled by the EEC.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby roubaixtuesday » 30 Nov 2020, 8:24am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Brexit: taking back what we'd never lost in order to gain what we already have.


Including fishing rights?

Before joining the EEC (European Economic Community) in 1973 (which became the European Union in the early 1990s) Britain – like most other countries in the world – controlled its own fishing waters. This was a zone extending 200 nautical miles from a country’s coastline (or the median point if another country is closer than that distance), an area known as a country’s Exclusive Economic Zone. With EEC membership Britain would control a zone just twelve miles from the UK coastline, with the rest of Britain’s waters now part of Europe’s combined Exclusive Economic Zone and controlled by the EEC.


To put it very mildly, that's an extremely limited view of the history of fishing rights.

Something with more context here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconvers ... ers-112988

Short version:

Fishing jobs decline has been long term, driven by technology and sustainability. The current quotas are derived from a British supported treaty. Fishing is a miniscule part of uk GDP and a renaissance of the industry won't happen.

Jdsk
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Jdsk » 30 Nov 2020, 9:03am


Ben@Forest
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 30 Nov 2020, 9:38am

roubaixtuesday wrote:Fishing jobs decline has been long term, driven by technology and sustainability. The current quotas are derived from a British supported treaty. Fishing is a miniscule part of uk GDP and a renaissance of the industry won't happen.


My quote was from the British Seafishing Industries website. Partial I'm sure but factually correct. And our industry declined after the apportioning of greater UK resources to Europe. I don't think the fact that the fishing industry is miniscule is of any relevance, so are many industries. If we're out of the EU then the negotiation of use of our waters is entirely legitimate. Would France leave the EU and still allow all other EU nations to use its waters as before?

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Jdsk » 30 Nov 2020, 9:50am

Ben@Forest wrote: I don't think the fact that the fishing industry is miniscule is of any relevance, so are many industries.

Relevance is quantitative. If we're losing bigger and more important national benefits because of this then we're making a mistake.

Jonathan

roubaixtuesday
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby roubaixtuesday » 30 Nov 2020, 9:56am

Ben@Forest wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Fishing jobs decline has been long term, driven by technology and sustainability. The current quotas are derived from a British supported treaty. Fishing is a miniscule part of uk GDP and a renaissance of the industry won't happen.


My quote was from the British Seafishing Industries website. Partial I'm sure but factually correct. And our industry declined after the apportioning of greater UK resources to Europe. I don't think the fact that the fishing industry is miniscule is of any relevance, so are many industries. If we're out of the EU then the negotiation of use of our waters is entirely legitimate. Would France leave the EU and still allow all other EU nations to use its waters as before?


British Seafishing is not necessarily representative of the industry, let alone the wider context.

Have a read if the links from me and jdsk.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby PDQ Mobile » 30 Nov 2020, 10:06am

Ben@Forest wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Fishing jobs decline has been long term, driven by technology and sustainability. The current quotas are derived from a British supported treaty. Fishing is a miniscule part of uk GDP and a renaissance of the industry won't happen.


My quote was from the British Seafishing Industries website. Partial I'm sure but factually correct. And our industry declined after the apportioning of greater UK resources to Europe. I don't think the fact that the fishing industry is miniscule is of any relevance, so are many industries. If we're out of the EU then the negotiation of use of our waters is entirely legitimate. Would France leave the EU and still allow all other EU nations to use its waters as before?

My personal memory of it is that the UK fishing industry fished it dry. Way past the point of sustainability. Like the herring fished to extinction a century before.
And it was the EU that managed to establish some better balance.
And our fisherman have sold quotas and made their money that way.

So to see all this pain over such an economically small issue is nonsense.
It is more of a propaganda issue.
Take back control!

Farage used fishing extensively as a one sided attack on the EU, on Question Time and the like.

Anyone seen him?

reohn2
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby reohn2 » 30 Nov 2020, 11:15am

^^^ this.
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thirdcrank
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Nov 2020, 11:23am

Altogether now ♫ "The fishermen of England...." ♫

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tZBSwKyzoo

Psamathe
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Psamathe » 30 Nov 2020, 11:28am

PDQ Mobile wrote:....
And our fisherman have sold quotas and made their money that way.
....

That is a major aspect that has not been widely publicised or considered. Maybe now they wont be able to sell those quotas they'll have to go and buy a fishing boat and go out and catch some fish. Quite a lot harder work than selling your quota and banking the cheque ...

Ian

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 1 Dec 2020, 10:17am

Psamathe wrote:That is a major aspect that has not been widely publicised or considered. Maybe now they wont be able to sell those quotas they'll have to go and buy a fishing boat and go out and catch some fish. Quite a lot harder work than selling your quota and banking the cheque ...


The situation has never been that simple, and it has been widely considered and publicised... I've seen dozens of stories about it and my interest in the marine environment /fisheries is marginal. Here's a good one from Greenpeace:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/unearthed. ... twood/amp/