The Brexit thread

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Psamathe
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2020, 1:26pm

Ben@Forest wrote:...
A pro EU German MP recently wrote that that the EU should not expect the same or similar fishing rights, and he accused the French of acting petulantly. Why is Britain somehow wrong and should surrender any national interest to a country which is famous for being thoroughly independent and bloody-minded when it wants to be?

France might be the most vocal but there are other EU members who have concerns; just Germany isn't one.

Ian

Jdsk
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Jdsk » 1 Dec 2020, 1:29pm

1gunsalute wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:...
A pro EU German MP recently wrote that that the EU should not expect the same or similar fishing rights, and he accused the French of acting petulantly. Why is Britain somehow wrong and should surrender any national interest to a country which is famous for being thoroughly independent and bloody-minded when it wants to be?

You allege that France is acting independently? Surely some mistake - the official line is that France as an EU member state has no sovereignty or independence and has to do what the Brussels bureaucrats say.

ISWYDT

Jonathan

Ben@Forest
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 1 Dec 2020, 2:32pm

Psamathe wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:...
A pro EU German MP recently wrote that that the EU should not expect the same or similar fishing rights, and he accused the French of acting petulantly. Why is Britain somehow wrong and should surrender any national interest to a country which is famous for being thoroughly independent and bloody-minded when it wants to be?

France might be the most vocal but there are other EU members who have concerns; just Germany isn't one.


For balance the same report had an executive from one of Germany's largest sea fishing companies. His opinion was of course more in line with French fishermen.

I suppose the difference is French politicians (or at least the ones we hear of) are backing their fishermen or would be damned, whereas a considerable body of thought in Germany recognises the status quo is not an option.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby roubaixtuesday » 1 Dec 2020, 2:45pm

Ben@Forest wrote:I suppose the difference is French politicians (or at least the ones we hear of) are backing their fishermen or would be damned, whereas a considerable body of thought in Germany recognises the status quo is not an option.


In the same way that we only hear from our own politicians asserting that we have control over our fish or be damned?

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2020, 2:50pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:...
A pro EU German MP recently wrote that that the EU should not expect the same or similar fishing rights, and he accused the French of acting petulantly. Why is Britain somehow wrong and should surrender any national interest to a country which is famous for being thoroughly independent and bloody-minded when it wants to be?

France might be the most vocal but there are other EU members who have concerns; just Germany isn't one.


For balance the same report had an executive from one of Germany's largest sea fishing companies. His opinion was of course more in line with French fishermen.

I suppose the difference is French politicians (or at least the ones we hear of) are backing their fishermen or would be damned, whereas a considerable body of thought in Germany recognises the status quo is not an option.

Also I have no idea when next German elections are due, I'd suspect that the German fishing industry is not as "powerful" as the French and probably not as impacted by UK refusing an agreed transition. Maybe also "local waters". So big mega-corp fishing boats might be impacted but can travel further and probably employ cheap offshore labour (who maybe don't get to vote in French elections anyway).

Guessing a bit but probably the more local fleets who hold a lot of power and are most impacted. And some are already somewhat "hacked-off" with British fisherpersons (remember the recent'ish scallop issues where French conservation measures prevented French boats fishing for scallops so British boats went into French waters to catch all their scallops ...)

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Psamathe » 1 Dec 2020, 3:36pm

Whilst an opinion piece, I suspect it is a probably outcome
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/boris-johnson-deal-betrayal-brexiters-no-deal wrote:Boris Johnson will get a deal: but it will be a betrayal of the Brexiters
It needs no crystal ball to foresee a deal. Though this government is disgraceful and dishonest, it is not certifiably insane. It will not kill off the car industry, manufacturing, farming, finance and fishing. It will not cut off security and police relations with Europe. Nor will it want a hard border in Ireland, breaking the Good Friday agreement. And nor will it freeze friendship with the new US president, nor leave relations with our nearest neighbours and traders irreparably rancorous.
...
Fish will be reapportioned, with complexity and transitions that try to shield the hard fact: we took back control of our waters in theory, but gave it up in the same breath because there is no fishing industry without that vital EU market to buy more than 70% of our catch. Our 12,000 fisher folk were shamefully exploited as Brexit visual aids; everyone knew they were destined to be sold down the Channel. This is the last bitter cod-liver oil pill that UK negotiators are struggling to swallow, but they will.
...

Ian

Oldjohnw
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Dec 2020, 6:06am

The UK fishing industry has about half of Harrod's turnover and employs less people.

Imagine if a whole Government strategy was based around saving Harrod's.
John

Ben@Forest
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 2 Dec 2020, 7:17am

Oldjohnw wrote:The UK fishing industry has about half of Harrod's turnover and employs less people.

Imagine if a whole Government strategy was based around saving Harrod's.


And a couple of years ago it was reported (by an independent organisation) that with best sustainable practice 5,000 new jobs could be created in the sea fishing industry. And in places that really need that investment. I'd say that's a good strategy to have.

Oldjohnw
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Dec 2020, 8:07am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:The UK fishing industry has about half of Harrod's turnover and employs less people.

Imagine if a whole Government strategy was based around saving Harrod's.


And a couple of years ago it was reported (by an independent organisation) that with best sustainable practice 5,000 new jobs could be created in the sea fishing industry. And in places that really need that investment. I'd say that's a good strategy to have.


Alternatively, you could give them half a million quid each and we would still save money.
John

thirdcrank
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Dec 2020, 8:09am

One of the things about trawler fishing and similar seems to be that it's often unpleasant and dangerous work, even though the £££ from share fishing can be good. There might not be lots of Brits wanting to do it anymore.

Ben@Forest
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 2 Dec 2020, 8:11am

Oldjohnw wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:The UK fishing industry has about half of Harrod's turnover and employs less people.

Imagine if a whole Government strategy was based around saving Harrod's.


And a couple of years ago it was reported (by an independent organisation) that with best sustainable practice 5,000 new jobs could be created in the sea fishing industry. And in places that really need that investment. I'd say that's a good strategy to have.


Alternatively, you could give them half a million quid each and we would still save money.


And that sustains Northumberland villages? You sound like a Tory.

Oldjohnw
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Dec 2020, 8:14am

More jobs lost in Arcadia.

And Northumberland villages do not depend on fishing
John

francovendee
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby francovendee » 2 Dec 2020, 8:15am

thirdcrank wrote:One of the things about trawler fishing and similar seems to be that it's often unpleasant and dangerous work, even though the £££ from share fishing can be good. There might not be lots of Brits wanting to do it anymore.

I'd say that was no bad thing. Fishermen have always devised methods to take more and more fish from the seas.
A small trawler with a couple of deckhands is one thing but huge boats scooping up everything is something that shouldn't be encouraged

Ben@Forest
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Ben@Forest » 2 Dec 2020, 8:19am

Oldjohnw wrote:More jobs lost in Arcadia.

And Northumberland villages do not depend on fishing


But many are dying on their feet, and jobs would do wonders. And many coastal villages had a sea fishing trade. I know Amble is trying to promote it.

thirdcrank
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Dec 2020, 8:24am

AIUI, Amble gained relatively temporary prominence as a port where big ships could refuel: collecting coal if not from Newcastle, from that broad neck of the woods. There's a big harbour - relative to the size of the place.