End of train franchises

[Jdsk]

Guardian explainer of the new system:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... il-network

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

And a video interview with Wolmar:
https://www.politics.co.uk/video/2021/0 ... eneration/

Jonathan

[VinceLedge]

Great British Rail......but they have not yet negotiated with Wales and Scotland about any changes! So not a UK wide change at all yet.

[geocycle]

Back in the 90s Virgin came in and revolutionised the west coast with smart trains and decent sandwiches. TBH years of underinvestment in BR meant they really couldn't fail to make a significant improvement. The problem is that the whole privatisation model for transport and indeed utilities is fundamentally flawed as the things that really matter (price, frequency, speed, efficiency etc) don't allow for direct competition on the same routes. Moreover, unless the profit made is reinvested in the industry then the private model has few advantages. On the rails, probably the only place for competition is catering.

[ClappedOut]

Trains and utilities should be state owned as private enterprise spends no money on maintenance as it affects profit in my opinion.

[Oldjohnw]

I support state ownership of utilities, too, but I am not aware that trains or planes, which are are in private ownership, are not properly maintained.

Do you have any evidence that, in your words, “...a private enterprise spends no money on maintenance”. [my bold]

AFAIK a government department sets and monitors maintenance schedules.

[millimole]

On the rails, probably the only place for competition is catering.

As much as I disagree with it I can see how competition works in the rail industry for a lot of behind the scenes and 'back office' functions such as providing maintenance & cleaning, storage & testing of new stock, infrastructure projects, ticket sales, recruitment, providing 'thunderbird' services (to rescue broken down trains), telecoms - to name but a few.
I'm unconvinced that these services (and others) can't be run in-house (By gBR) , but they are currently typically outsourced by the ToCs and or NR quite successfully.

[Jdsk]

"Government takes over running of LSER services in response to over £25 million breach of franchise agreement"
"Decision will have no impact on passengers or the frontline staff of LSER"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... -agreement

The history of this contract and the performance of the provider:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Eastern_franchise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast ... erformance

Jonathan

[Stevek76]

For the moment, they are socialising the losses.

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-d ... -railways/

Jonathan

Nice little wealth transfer from the public purse into private pockets. You can't fault the propaganda exercise that the tories have managed to convince a generation that they're competent with public finances.

[PH]

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-d ... -railways/
Jonathan

Nice little wealth transfer from the public purse into private pockets. You can't fault the propaganda exercise that the tories have managed to convince a generation that they're competent with public finances.

I hope people click through to the link rather than just look at the line on a graph, it may be a full fact but it's far from the full story. For a start the link says "Net government support to the rail industry in Great Britain for 2017/18 was £6.4 billion, of which £2.1 billion was for HS2." whatever you think of that project it's clear the graph isn't comparing like with like.
Then there's the passenger numbers, 800 million a year at the time of privatisation, 1,750 million in the year before the pandemic.
I supported the last Labour Manifesto, which clearly stated the intention to bring the railways back into public ownership. It wasn't a vote winner, one of the reasons for that is the lack of honest debate. Making a point based on the overall subsidy without comparing the other factors is a part of that dishonesty.

[thirdcrank]

On the rails, probably the only place for competition is catering.

As much as I disagree with it I can see how competition works in the rail industry for a lot of behind the scenes and 'back office' functions such as providing maintenance & cleaning, storage & testing of new stock, infrastructure projects, ticket sales, recruitment, providing 'thunderbird' services (to rescue broken down trains), telecoms - to name but a few.
I'm unconvinced that these services (and others) can't be run in-house (By gBR) , but they are currently typically outsourced by the ToCs and or NR quite successfully. (My emphasis)

I think that the bit I've highlighted should read "at inordinate expense." (Source: Dr B Ching in Private Eye. Also a late friend who was a BR engineer who made oodles of £££ as a consultant post redundancy.)

[Stevek76]

The railways will always need subsidy (the only modes of transport that aren't net subsidised are walking and cycling), that wasn't really the point I was making. Simply that the idea that this privatise & cut everything ideology doesn't actually save any money, and that's not limited to the railways, quick look at the figures on public debt & deficit show that very nicely.

As for the railways, they really need more spend, not less. They've had decades of neglect, even under the BR days. The capacity overhauls of HS2 (and npr/hs3) are part of that but a proper secure funding for rolling electrification is also needed.

[reohn2]

Back in the 90s Virgin came in and revolutionised the west coast with smart trains and decent sandwiches. TBH years of underinvestment in BR meant they really couldn't fail to make a significant improvement. The problem is that the whole privatisation model for transport and indeed utilities is fundamentally flawed as the things that really matter (price, frequency, speed, efficiency etc) don't allow for direct competition on the same routes. Moreover, unless the profit made is reinvested in the industry then the private model has few advantages. On the rails, probably the only place for competition is catering.

Spot on!

[reohn2]

For the moment, they are socialising the losses.

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-much-d ... -railways/

Jonathan

Nice little wealth transfer from the public purse into private pockets. You can't fault the propaganda exercise that the tories have managed to convince a generation that they're competent with public finances.

The chickens are coming home to roost,and not only with the railways but across the board the whole system is groaning under the strain of contunied mismanagement over a long period,Brexit has speeded that up.

[Oldjohnw]

Efficient, economical and environmentally preferable transport is a public service not a profit centre.