Flu 'jab'

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Audax67
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Audax67 » 5 Oct 2020, 9:39am

Oldjohnw wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I think smallpox has been totally eliminated everywhere. The only disease that does now belong in the past.



Not quite. There are still some laboratory samples left with debate over whether or not they should be destroyed.


Totally eliminated as in the human population.


Yeah...

Deadly disease
==> development of vaccine
==> worldwide vaccination
==> disease eradicated except for samples
==> nobody vaccinates any more
==> Hey chaps! We've got this GREAT weapon!

Of course, worldwide vaccination won't happen any more because of conspiracy theorists, so the rest won't follow.

==> anti-vaxx is a good thing? :shock:

Pardon me, I'm just going to run my head under the cold water. If I'm not back it'll be because there isn't enough room between tap & sink and I've broken my skull pushing.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

Jdsk
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Jdsk » 5 Oct 2020, 9:45am

The history of smallpox as a weapon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Biological_warfare

And the current reactive countermeasures in the USA:
https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/bioterrorism/public/detection-response.html

The UK also has a lot of vaccine in storage, possibly enough for the whole population.

Jonathan

ANTONISH
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby ANTONISH » 5 Oct 2020, 10:29am

Jdsk wrote:The history of smallpox as a weapon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Biological_warfare

And the current reactive countermeasures in the USA:
https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/bioterrorism/public/detection-response.html

The UK also has a lot of vaccine in storage, possibly enough for the whole population.

Jonathan

Well I'm pleased you posted this information.
I was reading more than usual during the lockdown - got through "The mirror and the light" - chanced upon a thriller given big writeup by Guardian "the only thriller you need to read this year" Times and others praised it - involved terrorist intending to unleash smallpox on US. Trains himself as a biochemist as part of the scheme at one stage extracts someone's eyeball to fool an iris recognition system in order to gain access to a secure laboratory.
Enters James Bond figure - numerous chance events, coincidences - CIA - US president - US navy - helicopters. Terrorist foiled.
IMO ludicrous story line.
Why read it? - I'm stubborn and once I start I force myself to plough through.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Oct 2020, 11:06am

Jdsk wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I think smallpox has been totally eliminated everywhere. The only disease that does now belong in the past.

Oldjohnw wrote:Totally eliminated as in the human population.

There's one other disease that used to affect a different group of animals.

And four more current programmes and five further candidates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_infectious_diseases

Jonathan

PS: In case anyone doesn't know the strange story of the last case of smallpox:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_smallpox_outbreak_in_the_United_Kingdom


Eradication and elimination. Thanks for highlighting the difference. I didn't know.
John

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby The utility cyclist » 5 Oct 2020, 8:21pm

Jdsk wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Are you saying that Khan didn't have a 'flu jab?

Yes, that is what I am saying...

Full Fact with what must be the least surprising piece of fact checking of all time:
https://fullfact.org/online/sadiq-khan-flu-jab/

Jonathan

So no evidence he has in fact had his jab, just the word of another liar within his camp, whatever, you can believe whatever you like but it's coming from a bunch of proven liars.
'So called 'full fact' have produced zero to the contrary aside fro some words, having had discussions with 'full fact' (sic) regards cycling factoids and proven to them what they've said is false and not a fact at all and they would not change what they had said I'll presume anything they say unless there's cast iron proof that they are also full of poop. They've proven to be government shills with the lies regards other aspects of covid and vaccines in general.

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simonineaston
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby simonineaston » 5 Oct 2020, 9:33pm

the strange story of the last case of smallpox
Jeepers! Just read that... puts the current ballyhoo about C19 into perspective, doesn't it?! :shock:
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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bigjim
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby bigjim » 6 Oct 2020, 5:56pm

Didn't it take 40 years to find the Flu vaccine? I wonder how they are going to develop the Covid vaccine so quickly? As far as I'm aware it can mutate constantly like the Flu and the vaccine can be a guessing game. Evidently it takes 10 years to develop most vaccines and a billion pounds. Still no vaccine for the common cold or HIV for example.
My wife had the Flu vaccine last year and had never been so ill in her life. Never again she say,s though the docs are bombarding her with texts, phone calls and e-mails to arrange an appointment for one.

Jdsk
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Jdsk » 6 Oct 2020, 6:03pm

bigjim wrote:Didn't it take 40 years to find the Flu vaccine? I wonder how they are going to develop the Covid vaccine so quickly? As far as I'm aware it can mutate constantly like the Flu and the vaccine can be a guessing game.

The available technology and particularly that used by the Oxford group is completely different from what was previously available. The vehicle doesn't have to be reinvented for each vaccine that uses it. The target has been deliberately selected to avoid the problem of mutation.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/about

Jonathan

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bigjim
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby bigjim » 6 Oct 2020, 8:40pm

Jdsk wrote:
bigjim wrote:Didn't it take 40 years to find the Flu vaccine? I wonder how they are going to develop the Covid vaccine so quickly? As far as I'm aware it can mutate constantly like the Flu and the vaccine can be a guessing game.

The available technology and particularly that used by the Oxford group is completely different from what was previously available. The vehicle doesn't have to be reinvented for each vaccine that uses it. The target has been deliberately selected to avoid the problem of mutation.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/about

Jonathan

But doesn't that mean that there is a very short human trial. The effects can't possibly be known for a few years. Especially with pregnant women.

Jdsk
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Jdsk » 6 Oct 2020, 8:56pm

I'm assuming that you mean the adverse effects rather than the protective effects.

If trials were longer the vaccines might be safer but more people wouldn't have been protected, would suffer, and would die. The best you can do is get the experts together, do that sort of modelling of the risks and benefits, and make a decision.

But with for example the Oxford vaccine it's not a brand new product and it's very likely that the adverse effects will be similar to those of its close relatives. And in this case that includes the existing MERS vaccine.

There's a convenient paper on the balance of factors in including pregnant women in development; of course there are additional risks but the women and foetuses also need protection:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30638-1/fulltext

For COVID-19 two main groups of shortcuts to availability of safe vaccines are being used: parallel development of multiple separate vaccines, and production in large volumes before the trials are completed.

And as in so many of these issues it's possible for politicians to get in the way: see Trump's attempt in the last few days to override the FDA's decision on timescale.

Jonathan

landsurfer
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby landsurfer » 6 Oct 2020, 9:08pm

Jdsk wrote:If trials were longer the vaccines might be safer but more people wouldn't have been protected, would suffer, and would die. The best you can do is get the experts together, do that sort of modelling of the risks and benefits, and make a decision.

Jonathan


Good idea, get Neil Ferguson to model things ... after all he has a solid reputation as a modeller ... Oh, untested or short tested vaccines have a top reputation of saving lives .... not ... who will the government make the vaccine available to first .... working class white, BAME, ... no of course ..it will be first used by wealthy politicians and there families ....... :evil: :evil: :evil: .... not !
"There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph." Guess Who ...
The Road Goes On Forever

Jdsk
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby Jdsk » 6 Oct 2020, 9:10pm

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought that this was a serious discussion of how to develop safe vaccines as quickly as possible so I was trying to help.

Jonathan

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bigjim
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby bigjim » 6 Oct 2020, 10:29pm

Jdsk wrote:Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought that this was a serious discussion of how to develop safe vaccines as quickly as possible so I was trying to help.

Jonathan

You have obviously put some work into your answers and that is appreciated. I for one am much wiser for them. People are naturally sceptical as we have and are continually being fed so much lies and information that it is hard to get at the truth. Plus of course the shadow of thalidomide still hangs over a lot of the older generation. We now have the news of Johnson and Johnson owning up to the fact that they knew there was asbestos in their baby powder for all these years. Doesn't imbue one with confidence as they are also developing a vaccine.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 8 Oct 2020, 1:42am

Hi,
landsurfer wrote:So is this jab only available to southerners ?

Northerners drink too much beer, and probably couldn't tell the diff between flu and a hangover :mrgreen: :lol:
I could of had the pre 65 jab mid sep from GP, under vulnerable status, did not jump to it so it was later.
My brother inlaw had his earlier Asthma, he had to stand outside a boots chemist whilst they injected through a window......his sis said in chat.......did you cry much :lol:
Did not get a arm ache at all this year.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

ANTONISH
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Re: Flu 'jab'

Postby ANTONISH » 8 Oct 2020, 10:05am

bigjim wrote:Didn't it take 40 years to find the Flu vaccine? I wonder how they are going to develop the Covid vaccine so quickly? As far as I'm aware it can mutate constantly like the Flu and the vaccine can be a guessing game. Evidently it takes 10 years to develop most vaccines and a billion pounds. Still no vaccine for the common cold or HIV for example.
My wife had the Flu vaccine last year and had never been so ill in her life. Never again she say,s though the docs are bombarding her with texts, phone calls and e-mails to arrange an appointment for one.


I'm sorry your wife was ill.
We can all have a different reaction to the flu vaccine.
No medical intervention is without risk.
I've been having a flu jab for many years - I usually feel a bit off colour for a few days - sometimes more sometimes less.
Having in the past had two severe doses of flu I have no wish to repeat the experience.
The vaccine doesn't always hit it's (moving) target.
I had a jab in 2017 and in early 2018 I had a severe bout of a sort of coughing flu - it was quite widespread and it took me several weeks to recover.
I don't see that as a reason to forego my annual jab - I'm having it next Monday.
In the 63 years since my first bout of flu, knowledge of viruses and technologies have increased massively.
The great fear of my youth was polio - I had the polio vaccine and I believe the vaccine eradicated polio in this country.
The "antivaxxers" will argue that polio was eliminated by some other mechanism - I seriously believe that many of these people are just trolls in much the same category as those that inhabit suicide websites.