Dogs: Why? Why not? Vote now please!

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Do you love dogs?

Yes
14
47%
No
8
27%
Prefer cats
5
17%
Love all animals
2
7%
NIMBY
1
3%
Not sure yet
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 30

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al_yrpal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by al_yrpal »

Up until 3 months ago I didnt have the company of dogs although I had one as a kid. I always say that I like other peoples dogs. My new partner has 2 dogs who are both very nice, a 15 year old gentle collie and a 5 year old very sparky little Plummer Jack Russell, a cross between a Jack Russell and a Staffy.
The dogs are a delight. But...they limit your life a lot. We never leave them in the house more than 6 hours and that limits where you can go. We cant visit certain folk at all with them because they have cats. Overnight visits elsewhere are out unless you send your dogs to kennels.
You have to be really committed to your dogs.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Mick F
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Mick F »

We had a dog before we had a child!
Sailor is our fifth Border Collie in our 47years of marriage.
Sally, Megan, Rascal, Phoebe, and now Sailor.

Megan had thirty pups in her time. Various litter sizes from eight down to four. We kept No29 Rascal, and he and Phoebe had a litter too. Six, if my memory serves me.

Meanwhile Rascal sired a few. Dunno how many he "provided" in total.

This is me (my arm!) and Rascal on Dartmoor.
Rascal.jpg

This is Sailor.
Sailor Chair 1.jpg

Got photos of the others, and the puppies, but I'd have to scan them off the prints.
Mick F. Cornwall
pwa
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by pwa »

al_yrpal wrote:Up until 3 months ago I didnt have the company of dogs although I had one as a kid. I always say that I like other peoples dogs. My new partner has 2 dogs who are both very nice, a 15 year old gentle collie and a 5 year old very sparky little Plummer Jack Russell, a cross between a Jack Russell and a Staffy.
The dogs are a delight. But...they limit your life a lot. We never leave them in the house more than 6 hours and that limits where you can go. We cant visit certain folk at all with them because they have cats. Overnight visits elsewhere are out unless you send your dogs to kennels.
You have to be really committed to your dogs.

Al

You are right, of course, they are limiting and you have to go into it with your eyes wide open. As I mentioned, we hope to get a dog in the new year and we have been mulling over the practicalities.

Some dogs, border collies being an example, don't tolerate being left alone for long. So we have opted for a whippet, a breed that between bouts of athletic exercise is content to doze on a settee.

Dogs do limit where you can go, but we have family locally who will take the dog for us sometimes. And we simply don't do global travel. We have no interest in that. So I think we have that aspect covered. We will not be using kennels at all.

As for cats, that is something I want to work on. I want to train the dog to accept cats. It can be done.

As a dogless dog lover I feel that life without a dog is more limiting than life with a dog.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

A dogless dog lover? :wink:
I used to take neighbours hound out, that was enough
Are you sure about getting a dog? It might live 20+ years, how old are you then? Do you banish it to kennels when you take a cycling holiday? I really want to know: do dogs understand that their keepers come to get them after a couple of weeks? Or do they fear that they have been abandoned for ever?
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 27 Nov 2020, 9:17am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I cannot recommend a border terrier enough. They're terriers so have that terrier character thing going on but they're intelligent, don't have that deaf ear terrier thing so strongly and very trainable. Smallish so very packable for travelling. However they can run fast for their size and you can develop them to be run for hours but they'll be happy with a couple of shorter walks a day too. So you can have a whippet level of two 20 minutes or a full day out, even running with you on your MTB too!

That's ours at least.

Btw please ignore the above. Border terriers are the worst dog for anyone to own. Spread that around. with luck the price ofthem will drop so we can get our second one.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Pictures please :wink:
HOW MUCH?!?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Tangled Metal »

They got to a first lockdown price of £3000 up from about £700 three years ago.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Tangled Metal »

And no! I'm not posting photos. I want you drive the price down not make demand and prices go up!

People say she looks a bit like me but then says she's cute. I've never been called cute since a baby. How does that work? She mustn't look like me. Slightlu greying, scruffy beard aside obviously.

We get her hand stripped twice a year. Every time her fur is left as soft as a puppy's. Then when her double coat grows back it's a totally different colour pattern. Even totally different colours present. What was grey is tan or what's called red or black. White patches come and go or simply changes size. Tiara a BT for you.
pwa
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by pwa »

Tangled Metal wrote:I cannot recommend a border terrier enough. They're terriers so have that terrier character thing going on but they're intelligent, don't have that deaf ear terrier thing so strongly and very trainable. Smallish so very packable for travelling. However they can run fast for their size and you can develop them to be run for hours but they'll be happy with a couple of shorter walks a day too. So you can have a whippet level of two 20 minutes or a full day out, even running with you on your MTB too!

That's ours at least.

Btw please ignore the above. Border terriers are the worst dog for anyone to own. Spread that around. with luck the price ofthem will drop so we can get our second one.

I like border terriers and they were high on my list of possibles, but the whippet sneaked across the line in first place. Having done my research, whippets have the following useful characteristics:

Quite long lived for a dog.
Very few have health problems except when very old.
Fairly trainable, though they need more time to get the hang of things than fast learners such as border collies.
They like long walks.
But they don't need long walks if you don't have much time on any particular day.
Between bouts of exercise they are content to just chill, so with the usual period of adjustment they can become happy to be left alone for several hours.
They smell less than most dogs. I haven't been going round sniffing whippets, but I have heard that this is the case.
They can be trained to be quiet and not annoy the neighbours with barking while you are away.
And a whippet running on a long, empty beach (which we have within walking distance) is a glorious sight. They do upto 35mph and accelerate from zero quicker than just about any other breed. They love fetching things that you throw.

The main disadvantage of whippets is their strong chase instinct which can cause problems with cats if you don't get on top of that aspect of training. Any small mammal will set them off if you don't have control.
Jdsk
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Jdsk »

Cyril Haearn wrote:I really want to know: do dogs understand that their keepers come to get them after a couple of weeks? Or do they fear that they have been abandoned for ever?

Do you think that that is a question that has an answer? If you make it into one or more that can be answered you might get some useful responses.

1 I don't think that there's much doubt that many dogs undergo separation anxiety.

2 I don't think that there's much doubt that many/ all dogs become very excited when their owner (and other pack members) reappear. And as a
pretty strict reductionist I have no problem at all with describing their reaction as happiness, although joy might be more accurate.

3 Very little is known about dogs' perception of the future. From what I can tell they aren't particularly good at planning anything... counterexamples welcome.

4 There's no reason to think that any dogs have any concept of "a couple of weeks" or "forever"... again happy (!) to be contradicted.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 27 Nov 2020, 9:54am, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Jdsk »

pwa wrote:You are right, of course, they are limiting and you have to go into it with your eyes wide open.

Sounds as if you are.

Hope you all have a great time together.

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by simonineaston »

YouTube is full of clips that show the reaction of dogs that have been separated from owners, in the form of serving members of the armed forces (mostly in the US, but that's neither here nor there). The dogs' reaction is a clear indication of how their memory works, that is to say the animals usually treat the new arrival with suspiscion as they do not recognize them. The new arrival is not part of their every-day existance. But as they realise that the new arrival is familiar after-all, they become excited and begin to display obvious signs that they recognize the individual and are happy to see them again. That is to say, they have remembered them from before.
Beyond that, there's nothing to indicate that they can think ahead. They just live in the present - either the pack member is there, in which case, all is well & good, or else they are not, in which case the dog, as a pack animal, is not as happy as it would have been had all the pack members been present & correct. Individual pack members are remembered, though, as their reactions in the videos suggests. That's my take anyway.
Last edited by simonineaston on 27 Nov 2020, 10:11am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Tangled Metal »

pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I cannot recommend a border terrier enough. They're terriers so have that terrier character thing going on but they're intelligent, don't have that deaf ear terrier thing so strongly and very trainable. Smallish so very packable for travelling. However they can run fast for their size and you can develop them to be run for hours but they'll be happy with a couple of shorter walks a day too. So you can have a whippet level of two 20 minutes or a full day out, even running with you on your MTB too!

That's ours at least.

Btw please ignore the above. Border terriers are the worst dog for anyone to own. Spread that around. with luck the price ofthem will drop so we can get our second one.

I like border terriers and they were high on my list of possibles, but the whippet sneaked across the line in first place. Having done my research, whippets have the following useful characteristics:

Quite long lived for a dog.
Very few have health problems except when very old.
Fairly trainable, though they need more time to get the hang of things than fast learners such as border collies.
They like long walks.
But they don't need long walks if you don't have much time on any particular day.
Between bouts of exercise they are content to just chill, so with the usual period of adjustment they can become happy to be left alone for several hours.
They smell less than most dogs. I haven't been going round sniffing whippets, but I have heard that this is the case.
They can be trained to be quiet and not annoy the neighbours with barking while you are away.
And a whippet running on a long, empty beach (which we have within walking distance) is a glorious sight. They do upto 35mph and accelerate from zero quicker than just about any other breed. They love fetching things that you throw.

The main disadvantage of whippets is their strong chase instinct which can cause problems with cats if you don't get on top of that aspect of training. Any small mammal will set them off if you don't have control.

Just be aware that they chase other dogs too. One near us tried that with our BT and she doesn't take any shoot from any dog which got me worried. Before I could get her on a lead she'd educated the whippet but fortunately didn't break their thin skin. Apparently that type of dog has thin skin which can cut easily. Most of that greyhound type running dog owners I've had discussions with maintain a very good dog first aid kit because of that.

Be aware that the chase instinct might mean a muzzle when out and possibly on a lead around other dogs.

They are a good choice for many though. I suspect you've made a great choice for you. A border terrier would simply be better though! Biased? Me? Nah!
Tangled Metal
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Anecdotally our dog seems to plan her day. She has her places to be at different times of the day irrespective of where anyone in the house is. There appears to be an awareness of time and place there.

My grandfather's jrt had two times of day where he had to be at two different locations to bark at an imaginary fox and cat. My grandad remembers these original incident where the dog saw those animals at those locations at those times of day. That went on until he died. Iirc the fox at the end of the garden was about 3:30pm.
Jdsk
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Re: Dogs: Why? Why not?

Post by Jdsk »

Tangled Metal wrote:Anecdotally our dog seems to plan her day. She has her places to be at different times of the day irrespective of where anyone in the house is. There appears to be an awareness of time and place there.

My grandfather's jrt had two times of day where he had to be at two different locations to bark at an imaginary fox and cat. My grandad remembers these original incident where the dog saw those animals at those locations at those times of day. That went on until he died. Iirc the fox at the end of the garden was about 3:30pm.

Those could be turned into testable suggestions

But owners enormously over attribute to and project onto dogs (and other animal companions).

Tangled Metal wrote:Anecdotally our dog seems to plan her day. She has her places to be at different times of the day irrespective of where anyone in the house is. There appears to be an awareness of time and place there.

I don't think that anyone would deny the existence of those habits. But it's a long way from those to identifying any perception of the future.

I didn't mention dogs changing behaviour at around the time of day that the owner typically reappears... would anyone deny that?

Jonathan

PS: The ability of dogs to retrieve the correct object on command is also now properly documented. There's going to be a competitive run-off somewhere. Any guesses what breed they all are? ; - )

PPS:

[youtube]lcvbgq2SSyc[/youtube]
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