Smart meters (again?)

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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 9:14pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:An ev can undertake a thousand mile journey, no hat needed. I also thoroughly doubt that there are many cars out there with a 1000 mile range.

What is this assumption that the single depletion range is the total range of the vehicle?

If you didn’t have a filler cap your car would only do a few hundred miles.... and?

Hat?

Nobody said that they couldn't.

But an average range of 200 miles(?)(without towing) for an EV means five long charges.
And finding available motorway charging points. Which won't be subsidized.
Are all charging points the same plugs across Europe?
Does wet night driving and cold winter conditions affect the range?


You go with yours and I'll stick with my old and stinky. Fuel availability is not a problem just the money to buy it. :shock:
(And it's warm and cosy through wet and cold.)

Horses for courses.

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 9:36pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:But an average range of 200 miles(?)(without towing) for an EV means five long charges.
And finding available motorway charging points. Which won't be subsidized.
Are all charging points the same plugs across Europe?
Does wet night driving and cold winter conditions affect the range?


You go with yours and I'll stick with my old and stinky. Fuel availability is not a problem just the money to buy it. :shock:
(And it's warm and cosy through wet and cold.)

Horses for courses.

EV threads out there in the social media world always remind me of bicycle threads.
Someone mentions an EV (bicycle) and the next thing the thread is loaded with folk spouting the same old nonsense - doesn't matter how much you debunk it, it simply doesn't go away.

However one thing I've learned from such threads is that everyone and their dog needs a car that can do at least 600 miles on a single charge and charge in 2 minutes otherwise there's no point and if those drivers stop for a break (apparently most don't need one) then it's only for a couple of minutes and they're good to go.

Personally I call bllcks.
Almost nobody regularly drives 600 miles. The vast majority of the car fleet in this country probably rarely goes 20 miles from home with really long journeys happening very infrequently.
Roadside survey after survey has shown this to be true.

If I was going to drive 1000 miles then rather than use "old stinky" I'd hire a nice car - a modern car with decent fuel economy and clean emissions.
They're actually quite cheap to hire and the cost of hiring one is probably equivalent to the savings I make in a single month.
However I fully expect in the lifetime of my vehicle never to have to do that.

In the meantime should I need to drive any distance then stopping for a 30 minute break every 2 - 3 hours of driving to charge and have a rest is probably nothing short of a public service.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 10:08pm

^^
I am just pointing out shortcomings, from my personal perspective.
And those short comings are quite real.
Hiring is very costly, especially for such international journeys.
EV's are very costly.

I don't think they are a complete world" saviour" for many reasons already given.

While I'm sure "old and (not that) stinky" has one or two shortcomings, I can't think of any. :shock:

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 10:49pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:^^
I am just pointing out shortcomings, from my personal perspective.

Everyone who doesn't have one has a reason why they're no use to them - other than those who take the plunge and never go back.
PDQ Mobile wrote:And those short comings are quite real.

Not really, they're imagined.
Seriously, you don't think stopping every few hours of driving for a break is a good thing?
PDQ Mobile wrote:Hiring is very costly, especially for such international journeys.

But if you take a break then you don't need to hire - and even with the extortionate cost of roadside chargers you're still quids in.
PDQ Mobile wrote:EV's are very costly.

Not if you're regularly doing those miles they're not, they're cheaper than IC cars.
If you're talking second hand - well obviously they're still a bit new for that but they'll get there.
PDQ Mobile wrote:I don't think they are a complete world" saviour" for many reasons already given.

Mostly fabricated reasons imo.

There's only one valid reason not to own one and that's because you run old cars and currently there isn't an equivalent EV.
But if like most anti-EV folk you're regularly running 600+ miles up and down the country then you can buy a new EV for the cost of the fuel you're using - which makes them extremely affordable.
PDQ Mobile wrote:While I'm sure "old and (not that) stinky" has one or two shortcomings, I can't think of any. :shock:

I'm sure a few seconds round the back of it with an emissions tester will find a few for you... ;)

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Oct 2020, 9:20am

kwackers wrote:I'm sure a few seconds round the back of it with an emissions tester will find a few for you... ;)

Only one matey!
And actually its emissions and economy remain surprisingly good.
"Fast pass" every time.

I think it's great you've taken the EV step.
I can't afford it and I have certain reservations about the whole sum.

Wind's blowing!

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squeaker
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby squeaker » 26 Oct 2020, 9:38am

DaveReading wrote:
kwackers wrote:(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?
Thanks, Dave. Beat me to it :roll:
"42"

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 26 Oct 2020, 10:19am

squeaker wrote:
DaveReading wrote:
kwackers wrote:(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?
Thanks, Dave. Beat me to it :roll:

Not hard if you're going to wait a whole day before replying! :lol:

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Oct 2020, 10:22am

squeaker wrote:
DaveReading wrote:
kwackers wrote:(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?
Thanks, Dave. Beat me to it :roll:


18 pence multiplied by 30 equals 540p.
18p per kw(h!) is my single domestic leccy tarif. (I know I could get it for less by swapping and fiddling)
Plus VAT which is 5%.

Sounds expensive for 2/3rds (or 3/4rs)of a gallon of petrol?
Perhaps my sums are adrift?

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 26 Oct 2020, 10:32am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
squeaker wrote:
DaveReading wrote:No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?
Thanks, Dave. Beat me to it :roll:


18 pence multiplied by 30 equals 540p.
18p per kw(h!) is my single domestic leccy tarif. (I know I could get it for less by swapping and fiddling)
Plus VAT which is 5%.

Sounds expensive for 2/3rds (or 3/4rs)of a gallon of petrol?
Perhaps my sums are adrift?

I got paid £2.40 for my last 2/3rds of a gallon. :wink:

Two points though.
Firstly nobody with an EV pays 18p a kwh, my average is currently 7p - and that's actually pulled lower by the car which I deliberately charge ideally when prices are under 5p so the car actually makes my average price lower.

Second you're talking about gallons of petrol and assuming they have the same meaning for an EV as for your IC car. They don't.
30kw will move most EV's around 120 miles (more if you try, less if you don't).

So a more realistic calculation is to assume I pay 5p / kwh.
That's £1.50 for 120 miles.
How far does your car go on £1.50?

(I admit to 'gaming' my charging, if you can't be bothered then you can get a fixed 8p / kwh overnight tariff. If Octopus still do 'Go' then you can get 5p fixed overnight).

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Oct 2020, 10:39am

I knew there was more to it!
It is my only option as things stand though.

And I still have a domestic bill of around £23 a month including standing charge.

Horses for courses.

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Mick F
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby Mick F » 26 Oct 2020, 10:43am

kwackers wrote:Firstly nobody with an EV pays 18p a kwh, my average is currently 7p - and that's actually pulled lower by the car which I deliberately charge ideally when prices are under 5p so the car actually makes my average price lower.
Just looked at out meter.
We're paying 17.39p per Kwh.

Where do you get your lecky for 5p?

If we could have lecky for 5p a unit, I'd ditch all the solid fuel heating and cutting logs, and install full electric heating throughout.
Sod an EV. :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 26 Oct 2020, 10:59am

Mick F wrote:
kwackers wrote:Firstly nobody with an EV pays 18p a kwh, my average is currently 7p - and that's actually pulled lower by the car which I deliberately charge ideally when prices are under 5p so the car actually makes my average price lower.
Just looked at out meter.
We're paying 17.39p per Kwh.

Where do you get your lecky for 5p?

If we could have lecky for 5p a unit, I'd ditch all the solid fuel heating and cutting logs, and install full electric heating throughout.
Sod an EV. :wink:

My lecky is a variable tracking rate that tracks wholesale prices (Octopus Agile).

You can get an overnight tariff on Octopus Go which is 5p between 00:30 & 4:30. Don't know what their daytime tariff is but I think for me it was 15p.

I think EDF do an 8p tariff that's 8p off peak (9pm - 7am) and weekends. 19p outside of those hours.
I think they also do a flat rate 12.5p tariff - which is still cheaper than yours.

I'm sure other companies have similar things although afaik Octopus Agile is the only tracking tariff.

Worth pointing out that apart from the headline low prices the actual peak cost varies depending on where you live.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Oct 2020, 11:23am

Roughly 50% of it's fuel is either carbon or uranium! And there are losses in transmission



Looking right now it’s substantially less than 50%, and you are conflating green and fossil power not the same stat, which is disingenuous at best.
That figure depends on the power you buy, with quite a few places able to use locally produced power.

National grid losses are <10%. That’s pretty low when compared with the inefficiency of a standar petrol/diesel motor, and of course isolating it conveniently ignores the drilling, transporting, refining, transporting again, then pumping costs of your dino-juice.


Coal and open cycle gas turbines are currently <2% of the grid.
Closed cycle gas turbines (significantly more efficient) are ~27%.
There are trivial amounts in transfer lines... and more wind then nuclear.

Given your stated “old and stinky” I’m going to be generous and assume a thermal efficiency of 25%...

The transmission and battery round trip losses are the speck in the EV eye compared with the plank of inefficiency for the ICE.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Oct 2020, 11:26am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
kwackers wrote:I'm sure a few seconds round the back of it with an emissions tester will find a few for you... ;)

Only one matey!
And actually its emissions and economy remain surprisingly good.
"Fast pass" every time.

I think it's great you've taken the EV step.
I can't afford it and I have certain reservations about the whole sum.

Wind's blowing!



Surprisingly good emissions is like like saying that syphillis is a surprisingly good STD...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 3975
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Oct 2020, 11:43am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
kwackers wrote:I'm sure a few seconds round the back of it with an emissions tester will find a few for you... ;)

Only one matey!
And actually its emissions and economy remain surprisingly good.
"Fast pass" every time.

I think it's great you've taken the EV step.
I can't afford it and I have certain reservations about the whole sum.

Wind's blowing!



Surprisingly good emissions is like like saying that syphillis is a surprisingly good STD...

An unfortunate metaphor!
The 50 is overall which is the important bit for most of us.
I am not very big on nuclear either, for various reasons.
And however you spin it, it means you have emissions too for every mile you drive, whether you believe it or not.

Surprisingly good is better than surprisingly bad, I'm sure you would agree
And at 25 years old its manufacturing energy is well used.
Syphilis notwithstanding, its potency remains. :shock: