Smart meters (again?)

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squeaker
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby squeaker » 13 Oct 2020, 3:31pm

kwackers wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:They only save money if we change our habits to use less.

Just as a point of note, I now have an EV and use more but my overall bill is less...

So technically that statement isn't quite correct... ;)


Quite, but should we be worried about money, or carbon, or both :?:
"42"

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 13 Oct 2020, 3:44pm

squeaker wrote:
kwackers wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:They only save money if we change our habits to use less.

Just as a point of note, I now have an EV and use more but my overall bill is less...

So technically that statement isn't quite correct... ;)


Quite, but should we be worried about money, or carbon, or both :?:

Both obviously.

The extra lecky I use is for my car - which eventually is a gain anyway.
Plus cheap lecky is always associated with high levels of renewables plus using it at night is always greener than spooling more stations up at rush hour.
Cheap electricity is directly related to high levels or renewables (I think there's some bumf about it on Octopuses website).

One of the biggest power uses in my house was my wifes kiln, firing it several times a week for her business uses a fair bit of power.
Whereas before our flat rate meant it just got fired whenever it was convenient for her, now it gets fired whenever power is cheap - and like the car that can be deferred a couple of days if there's the likelihood of wind (and thus cheap renewables).


Overall I'm pretty confident that not only am I using more power but my overall energy footprint is now less carbon.

pwa
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby pwa » 13 Oct 2020, 4:11pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:........But as previously stated we will all have one eventually.

Surely only when they will work in 100% of addresses.

GranvilleThomas
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby GranvilleThomas » 13 Oct 2020, 4:43pm

kwackers wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:They only save money if we change our habits to use less.

Just as a point of note, I now have an EV and use more but my overall bill is less...

So technically that statement isn't quite correct... ;)


You may be correct, but that is something you will have to take up with the Advertising Standards Authority, as that was their statement in response to a smart meter advertisement that they considered misleading.

Of course the advertising campaign was trying to sell smart meters to us, as they could obviously sense people were not keen :)
Last edited by GranvilleThomas on 13 Oct 2020, 4:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

GranvilleThomas
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby GranvilleThomas » 13 Oct 2020, 4:48pm

pwa wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:........But as previously stated we will all have one eventually.

Surely only when they will work in 100% of addresses.


Not according to OFGEM, they have stated that 'conventional' meters will cease production soon and so when a meter needs replacing which is every 10 to 20 years depending on the type of meter, then it will be replaced by a smart meter, but if it cannot connect with the network then it will just function as a 'conventional' meter.

I have spent a great deal of time researching the smart meter 'situation' and it has not been properly thought out in my opinion, but it looks like we are stuck with them :)

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 13 Oct 2020, 4:52pm

GranvilleThomas wrote: You may be correct, but that is something you will have to take up with the Advertising Standards Authority, as that was their statement in response to a smart meter advertisement that they considered misleading..

Probably when they made that decision 'agile' tariffs weren't available.
I'm not even sure they were ever a consideration at the time but smart meters made them possible.

Unintended consequence is IME the prime driving force behind most things... :lol:

pwa
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby pwa » 13 Oct 2020, 4:56pm

GranvilleThomas wrote:
pwa wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:........But as previously stated we will all have one eventually.

Surely only when they will work in 100% of addresses.


Not according to OFGEM, they have stated that 'conventional' meters will cease production soon and so when a meter needs replacing which is every 10 to 20 years depending on the type of meter, then it will be replaced by a smart meter, but if it cannot connect with the network then it will just function as a 'conventional' meter.

I have spent a great deal of time researching the smart meter 'situation' and it has not been properly thought out in my opinion, but it looks like we are stuck with them :)

We have had two put in and then taken out again because they could not connect. The installers didn't seem to want to just leave them, recording but not communicating. Oh well, whatever!

GranvilleThomas
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby GranvilleThomas » 13 Oct 2020, 5:23pm

pwa wrote:
GranvilleThomas wrote:
pwa wrote:Surely only when they will work in 100% of addresses.


Not according to OFGEM, they have stated that 'conventional' meters will cease production soon and so when a meter needs replacing which is every 10 to 20 years depending on the type of meter, then it will be replaced by a smart meter, but if it cannot connect with the network then it will just function as a 'conventional' meter.

I have spent a great deal of time researching the smart meter 'situation' and it has not been properly thought out in my opinion, but it looks like we are stuck with them :)

We have had two put in and then taken out again because they could not connect. The installers didn't seem to want to just leave them, recording but not communicating. Oh well, whatever!


Yes, that's most likely because the people installing the meters are under instructions to do just that. In 2012, the government imposed a licence obligation on energy suppliers to take “all reasonable steps” to install smart meters in all homes and small businesses in Great Britain by the end of 2019. In 2013, this obligation was extended to the end of 2020.

In other words the energy companies have to supply figures to the Government to prove they are complying with this license obligation, but if they install a smart meter that does not connect to the network, this does not count towards the figures apparently.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year when the extended deadline has expired.

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DaveP
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby DaveP » 14 Oct 2020, 12:48am

According to a couple of articles that I have read in the last month or so, Smart meters (possibly the next generation) are being touted as a way for electricity providers to manage the situation that will result when we have all been weaned off gas / solid fuel heating options and fossil fuel powered transport. Apparently the published timetables for these changes are so tight that it will not be possible to increase generating capacity fast enough to keep pace with the new demands. Power suppliers will be able to turn off high consumption equipment and impose a form of rationing.
Personally, I think that if we have to endure interrupted supplies to make ends meet thats one thing - but I would like to be given a rota, The prospect of waking up in the morning to find that the porridge hasn't cooked, the storage heaters aren't warm and the car isn't going anywhere today because some algorithm has randomly picked my postcode for special attention is a bit scary.
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!

GranvilleThomas
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby GranvilleThomas » 14 Oct 2020, 7:29am

The most worrying thing about all this smart meter 'campaign' for me is that the people installing the meters do not necessarily have any kind of electrical qualifications.

I am a radio ham and an electronics/computer enthusiast but I have no electrical qualifications and I certainly would not want to go around installing a device like a smart meter, that if installed incorrectly, has the potential to burn someone’s house down.

I assumed that the installers would be electricians at the very least. However I could not find any of the smart meter recruitment companies asking for much at all. The main requirement seemed to be having a driving license.

The following is taken from the logic4training website one of the main recruiters on behalf of the energy providers:

Smart Meter installer training
You don't need any specific qualifications to start training as a Smart Meter installer though some employers may prefer you to have a minimum of four GCSEs or equivalent. Qualifications in maths, English, science, design and technology or electronics would all be useful.
http://www.logic4training.co.uk

Smart gas meter installers have to be by law (because they will have to break into a gas way, to complete installation) Gas Safe Registered, which is fair enough, but no formal qualifications for the installation of electric meters, 'just' a certificate of competence from whichever energy company you will be working for.

The installer courses seem to vary in length as well, with EDF for example stating a course duration of 9 weeks and some other courses, like the one from 'South Lanarkshire College' lasting 20 weeks.

Maybe working for the HSE for ten years has made me a bit paranoid :lol:

pwa
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby pwa » 14 Oct 2020, 7:36am

GranvilleThomas wrote:The most worrying thing about all this smart meter 'campaign' for me is that the people installing the meters do not necessarily have any kind of electrical qualifications.

I am a radio ham and an electronics/computer enthusiast but I have no electrical qualifications and I certainly would not want to go around installing a device like a smart meter, that if installed incorrectly, has the potential to burn someone’s house down.

I assumed that the installers would be electricians at the very least. However I could not find any of the smart meter recruitment companies asking for much at all. The main requirement seemed to be having a driving license.

The following is taken from the logic4training website one of the main recruiters on behalf of the energy providers:

Smart Meter installer training
You don't need any specific qualifications to start training as a Smart Meter installer though some employers may prefer you to have a minimum of four GCSEs or equivalent. Qualifications in maths, English, science, design and technology or electronics would all be useful.
http://www.logic4training.co.uk

Smart gas meter installers have to be by law (because they will have to break into a gas way, to complete installation) Gas Safe Registered, which is fair enough, but no formal qualifications for the installation of electric meters, 'just' a certificate of competence from whichever energy company you will be working for.

The installer courses seem to vary in length as well, with EDF for example stating a course duration of 9 weeks and some other courses, like the one from 'South Lanarkshire College' lasting 20 weeks.

Maybe working for the HSE for ten years has made me a bit paranoid :lol:

We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.

sjs
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby sjs » 14 Oct 2020, 7:49am

pwa wrote:
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.


My meters were installed by a pair of trainees under the supervision of a much younger but evidently qualified person. When the power was switched on he found that the live and neutral had been connected the wrong way round.

pwa
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby pwa » 14 Oct 2020, 7:50am

sjs wrote:
pwa wrote:
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.


My meters were installed by a pair of trainees under the supervision of a much younger but evidently qualified person. When the power was switched on he found that the live and neutral had been connected the wrong way round.

:lol:

rjb
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby rjb » 14 Oct 2020, 8:23am

sjs wrote:
pwa wrote:
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.


My meters were installed by a pair of trainees under the supervision of a much younger but evidently qualified person. When the power was switched on he found that the live and neutral had been connected the wrong way round.


So they would be paying you to burn electric. :shock:
Hope all your appliances have the appropriate double insulated marking. :wink:

When I had solar PV installed my meter ran backwards. :D
I eventually fessed up and had it rectified. :lol:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Littgull
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby Littgull » 14 Oct 2020, 8:39am

sjs wrote:
pwa wrote:
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.


My meters were installed by a pair of trainees under the supervision of a much younger but evidently qualified person. When the power was switched on he found that the live and neutral had been connected the wrong way round.

This is termed a 'cross polarity' and as such is classed as a 'dangerous occurrence' under the R.I.D.D.O.R (Reporting of Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations) 2013. Such incidents are legally required to be reported to the Health and Safety Executive (H.S.E) by the metering installer company/ electricity supplier. This enables the H.S.E to investigate the incident and if lack of competency is found then H.S.E will take enforcement action.