Smart meters (again?)

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DaveReading
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby DaveReading » 25 Oct 2020, 12:02am

PDQ Mobile wrote:If the clocks change there's still only 01:00 to 01:30?

At 02:00, you should reset your clocks to 01:00.

So yes, there are two periods which can be described as 01:00 to 01:30.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 12:14am

DaveReading wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:If the clocks change there's still only 01:00 to 01:30?

At 02:00, you should reset your clocks to 01:00.

So yes, there are two periods which can be described as 01:00 to 01:30.

Ah they go back.
I never got to grips with it. The sun comes up the sun goes down. I spead manure before rain( if I can!).

Why are the 01:30 and 01:00 reversed lower down?
If Kwackers's car can sort that lot out on it's own it's a blooming wonder!
I just jump in and start mine up when I want to go anywhere, short or long distance, day or night, it just does it every time.

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 9:48am

PDQ Mobile wrote:Why are the 01:30 and 01:00 reversed lower down?

They're not really, 2am at that point doesn't exist - it's now 1am. So 1:30 to 1:00 is technically correct.
PDQ Mobile wrote:If Kwackers's car can sort that lot out on it's own it's a blooming wonder!
I just jump in and start mine up when I want to go anywhere, short or long distance, day or night, it just does it every time.

The charger doesn't need to do anything clever, it just looks at the list of half hour slots and figures out which it should use.

I used to "just jump in mine" back in the old days - then I'd look in disbelief at how low my missus had run the fuel down (often to three dashes remaining), think about where I need to go and which petrol station was likely open along that route then usually detour to that station. (If I was unlucky I might have to go to the nearest which might be in the wrong direction completely and if it was the local Asda then I'd have to deal with the queues of folk trying to get in and out of the car park).
If I was unlucky and needed to go somewhere at an odd time I'd also need to know which stations where open - the days of 24 hour petrol stations near me seems to have disappeared (Asda's credit card pump notwithstanding - although whether it actually worked was a bit of a dice throw).

These days I just get in and drive - it's never been easier.

(Car took 30kw last night - happy days. ;) )

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 12:19pm

kwackers wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:Why are the 01:30 and 01:00 reversed lower down?

They're not really, 2am at that point doesn't exist - it's now 1am. So 1:30 to 1:00 is technically correct.
PDQ Mobile wrote:If Kwackers's car can sort that lot out on it's own it's a blooming wonder!
I just jump in and start mine up when I want to go anywhere, short or long distance, day or night, it just does it every time.

The charger doesn't need to do anything clever, it just looks at the list of half hour slots and figures out which it should use.

I used to "just jump in mine" back in the old days - then I'd look in disbelief at how low my missus had run the fuel down (often to three dashes remaining), think about where I need to go and which petrol station was likely open along that route then usually detour to that station. (If I was unlucky I might have to go to the nearest which might be in the wrong direction completely and if it was the local Asda then I'd have to deal with the queues of folk trying to get in and out of the car park).
If I was unlucky and needed to go somewhere at an odd time I'd also need to know which stations where open - the days of 24 hour petrol stations near me seems to have disappeared (Asda's credit card pump notwithstanding - although whether it actually worked was a bit of a dice throw).

These days I just get in and drive - it's never been easier.

(Car took 30kw last night - happy days. ;) )

Which would run my whole comfortable house for a fortnight!
It's just different priorities.

And my irregular fuelling 3-400 mile intervals never involves queuing or detours.
Old and stinky will undertake a thousand mile journey at the drop of a hat though.
And no faffing about with cables and timers and other unreliable software horrors (my perspective).

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 12:40pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Which would run my whole comfortable house for a fortnight!

Yeah but how far would your car go on it?
(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

Old and stinky will undertake a thousand mile journey at the drop of a hat though.
And no faffing about with cables and timers and other unreliable software horrors (my perspective).

Who drives a 1000 miles in one go in the UK? Even if you wanted to you'd stop for a rest!

As I said I don't mess with anything.
Lift the cable off the charger, pop the flap, plug it in. Five seconds, perhaps 10 if I pause to scratch my bum.
Go to bed, next day tot up the money I've been paid along with the 120 or so free miles thrown in.

rjb
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby rjb » 25 Oct 2020, 1:11pm

kwackers wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:Which would run my whole comfortable house for a fortnight!

Yeah but how far would your car go on it?
(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

Old and stinky will undertake a thousand mile journey at the drop of a hat though.
And no faffing about with cables and timers and other unreliable software horrors (my perspective).

Who drives a 1000 miles in one go in the UK? Even if you wanted to you'd stop for a rest!

As I said I don't mess with anything.
Lift the cable off the charger, pop the flap, plug it in. Five seconds, perhaps 10 if I pause to scratch my bum.
Go to bed, next day tot up the money I've been paid along with the 120 or so free miles thrown in.


What's not to like, but you could go further with using your car battery to power your house when it's sitting idle on your drive and maximise your return when the tariff is high. This is the direction smart meters are going to transform the electric system. :wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 1:28pm

rjb wrote:What's not to like, but you could go further with using your car battery to power your house when it's sitting idle on your drive and maximise your return when the tariff is high. This is the direction smart meters are going to transform the electric system. :wink:

I originally liked the idea of V2G but I've gone off it - at least temporarily.

Vehicle batteries do degrade. In normal use that's not an issue, current figures suggest less than 10% over 100,000 miles which is OK because you simply make sure you've got that as an initial headroom when you buy the car.
So V2G would result in accelerated wear and I ask myself if I had the choice of two cars, both same mileage but one had been used in such a scenario which would I buy?

Long term though batteries are improving in leaps and bounds so it'll become less of a issue.

Against that batteries are getting cheaper fairly quickly and old car batteries are entering the marketplace - a knackered 40Kwh battery probably has 20+ kwh left and could perform several years use as a 'house' battery for little money - probably less than you'd devalue your car by using it to run your house.

One of the more interesting aspects of all of this - EV's, local solar/wind, local storage etc etc is that everything is currently up in the air and it's difficult to be sure what it'll look like when it hits the floor...
Interesting times though.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 2:25pm

kwackers wrote:Who drives a 1000 miles in one go in the UK? Even if you wanted to you'd stop for a rest!

As I said I don't mess with anything.
Lift the cable off the charger, pop the flap, plug it in. Five seconds, perhaps 10 if I pause to scratch my bum.
Go to bed, next day tot up the money I've been paid along with the 120 or so free miles thrown in.

What's not to like is the huge cost of the vehicle. Both environmentally and monetarily.
While the subsidized leccy is a big plus at the moment, overall mileage costs remain high.

The fact that it has to be charged on long journeys (at much greater cost) and the fact that it is only a people conveyer but not a serious work horse.
On a thousand mile journey I want to sleep in my old bus somewhere quiet, not by a charging point in some foul motorway service station (that charges a fortune for leccy no doubt).

I am less sure of the battery issue than you.
Certainly rechargeable cycle light batteries have not improved in the last decade to my mind. Nor have phone batteries significantly.

And I distrust a complex and expensive software/ hardware interface. Just inbuilt unreliability in my book.
So you can invest in some system to run your house from cheap stored car battery leccy but then you have no usable car?
And as you intimate battery life will be affected too.

You have bought the car, at great expense no doubt, and I think you are promoting it beyond it's real eco credentials.
Roughly 50% of it's fuel is either carbon or uranium! And there are losses in transmission.
That remains the reality.
ICE cars also use a certain sustainable fuel component.

Jdsk
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby Jdsk » 25 Oct 2020, 2:29pm

rjb wrote:What's not to like, but you could go further with using your car battery to power your house when it's sitting idle on your drive and maximise your return when the tariff is high. This is the direction smart meters are going to transform the electric system.

And apart from the personal financial benefit that combined energy storage of all the stationary EVs can partly fill the gaps from the intermittent supply from renewable sources.

Jonathan

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby PDQ Mobile » 25 Oct 2020, 2:45pm

Jdsk wrote:
rjb wrote:What's not to like, but you could go further with using your car battery to power your house when it's sitting idle on your drive and maximise your return when the tariff is high. This is the direction smart meters are going to transform the electric system.

And apart from the personal financial benefit that combined energy storage of all the stationary EVs can partly fill the gaps from the intermittent supply from renewable sources.

Jonathan


I don't want to be resident Jonah on here!
But the big intermittent supply in this context is Solar. Which is available when most folk's vehicles are out and about.
Wind comes in much bigger "lumps" often days or weeks and the anticyclonic lulls last for long periods.
Which makes this idea of short term domestic storage less realistic IMHO.

Reducing usage is achievable and also beneficial.

Jdsk
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby Jdsk » 25 Oct 2020, 3:02pm

Most recent calculations come up with the batteries in EVs making some useful contribution. That comment about timescales reminded me of this, athough it's getting bit old:
Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 14.57.03.png
from:
https://erpuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/52990-ERP-Energy-Storage-Report-v3.pdf

And the geographical area of interest can be pretty big with international interconnects.

The concern about what happens to batteries when their life in EVs is over can also be partly addressed by reusing them in buildings, as above. Nissan UK is doing a lot of work on that.

Of course the financial incentives have to line up as well as the technology.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 25 Oct 2020, 3:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 3:06pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:I don't want to be resident Jonah on here!
But the big intermittent supply in this context is Solar. Which is available when most folk's vehicles are out and about.
Wind comes in much bigger "lumps" often days or weeks and the anticyclonic lulls last for long periods.
Which makes this idea of short term domestic storage less realistic IMHO.

Reducing usage is achievable and also beneficial.

Yeah, but solar happens during the day when our energy usage is at its peak. Even if you're not using it you'll be exporting it and so others will use it (even globally).

Not only that but if you look at solar installs these days you'll notice that in a couple of years we've gone from nobody mentioning storage to every other advert quoting a price including storage.
Local storage is now a "thing" both with new installs and retrofits to existing installs.

Of course as you say reducing usage is achievable - for some folk, not for all though.
Don't forget you apparently can "undertake a thousand mile journey at the drop of a hat" - which presumably is something you need to do and hence why you used it as an argument against EV's... ;)

DaveReading
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby DaveReading » 25 Oct 2020, 5:06pm

kwackers wrote:(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?

kwackers
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby kwackers » 25 Oct 2020, 5:26pm

DaveReading wrote:
kwackers wrote:(30kw is the equivalent of about 2/3rds of a gallon of petrol)

No, it isn't. Do you mean kWh ?

I should think so ;).

I do try to remember to add the 'h' but sometimes I miss (or add it superfluously).
Think of it as a service to pedants.

(It's probably nearer 3/4's now I think about it too)

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Smart meters (again?)

Postby [XAP]Bob » 25 Oct 2020, 8:41pm

An ev can undertake a thousand mile journey, no hat needed. I also thoroughly doubt that there are many cars out there with a 1000 mile range.

What is this assumption that the single depletion range is the total range of the vehicle?

If you didn’t have a filler cap your car would only do a few hundred miles.... and?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.