Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

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mercalia
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Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby mercalia » 16 Oct 2020, 8:49pm

Seems like the govt wants tfl to remove free transport for the 60+ incl pensioners in London as a condition of more bail out money

https://news.sky.com/story/government-offers-transport-for-london-further-1631bn-bailout-12105037?

I think Johnson will make an enemy of many many people in London if he does that. Given the the amount of money the govt is prepared to waste on HS2 its a small drop in the ocean.

Is a silly idea as all that will happen is that pensioners ( many who only have a state pension) will just get trapped in their homes and will stop traveling, they wont spend what pension they have on travel rather on services or entertainments.

kwackers
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby kwackers » 16 Oct 2020, 8:59pm

I think transport should be free for pensioners. Need them getting out and about rather than stuck at home.

Just make it free off peak, trains and buses are pretty much empty then anyway so the cost is minimal.

mercalia
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby mercalia » 16 Oct 2020, 9:01pm

kwackers wrote:I think transport should be free for pensioners. Need them getting out and about rather than stuck at home.

Just make it free off peak, trains and buses are pretty much empty then anyway so the cost is minimal.


Thats what it is at the moment - you cant use the Freedom Pass during rush hour ( as if there is one any more?). Before this crisis you couldnt use the local trains before 10am now that has been extended to buses and tube as part of the first bail out.

I wonder how serious this Sky report is? If it has Johnsons support as remember he was once mayor of London so must have some understanding of the ramifications of such a policy. He wont be forgiven.

The only thing that might be fair would be to make it means tested. It is a council based thing any way and they know who would be eligible. I dont see why the rich and well off with multi-million pound homes should get free transport. I am not sure how that could work. I do know that every time you use the freedom pass ( like any standard oyster card) the trip is recorded under your name. I wonder if all they need to do is to allow the card readers at the stations/bus entrance access to the database of those eligible and let them through and refuse those not on the database?

There is a problem with the proposal.At the moment any one in England can use the local buses any where so if London pensioners could no longer use the buses for free we would have the anomaly that visiting pensioners still could!

The mayor wants I think £6bn over 18 months - seems ridiculous given all the £bn given over to HS2 and other policies

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RickH
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby RickH » 16 Oct 2020, 9:42pm

Is the proposal to abolish free 60+ travel altogether or bring the age limit into line with the pension age?

Here in Greater Manchester I have to wait til I get my state pension rather than having it already, as I'm over 60.

rjb
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby rjb » 16 Oct 2020, 10:09pm

The free travel perk for over 60's in London only applies to residents within the M25. Pensioners from outside the M25 are only entitled to free travel on buses from 9.30 am. The bus pass entitlement is linked to state pension age, 66 and rising :(
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Oct 2020, 12:04am

Boomers complaining about perks generation X or later won't have anyway because it can't be afforded anymore!!! :wink:

mercalia
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby mercalia » 17 Oct 2020, 10:04am

rjb wrote:The free travel perk for over 60's in London only applies to residents within the M25. Pensioners from outside the M25 are only entitled to free travel on buses from 9.30 am. The bus pass entitlement is linked to state pension age, 66 and rising :(


strictly speaking to people living in London boroughs. But there is an anomaly. I can go to Dartford and back but people living there cant.

mercalia
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby mercalia » 17 Oct 2020, 10:06am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54568920
more there

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52716578

puzzling really. the true tory face? Grant Shapps is the beast-man. He is using the covid problem to impose tory policies that even Johnson when mayor didnt have

kwackers
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby kwackers » 17 Oct 2020, 11:18am

Tangled Metal wrote:Boomers complaining about perks generation X or later won't have anyway because it can't be afforded anymore!!! :wink:

The actual cost is the loss of income from pensioners who would have paid.
I don't know how much that amounts to but I bet it's not a lot.

Against that, pensioners driving cars or on public transport?
I certainly know pensioners who drive that really shouldn't...
As a social policy, free transport for pensioners is a good thing.

TBH, I think if not free, then off peak transport should be pretty cheap for everyone.

I think there's a basic problem with a lot of stuff in that those at the top base their decisions on simplistic calculations. Looking only at the actual cost of the thing rather than taking into account what the cost of not having the thing would be.
It fundamentally is how we destroyed our railway system. Chop off the unprofitable bits and expect the bits making a profit to continue to do so without any understanding of the holistic whole.

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Paulatic
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby Paulatic » 17 Oct 2020, 2:17pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Boomers complaining about perks generation X or later won't have anyway because it can't be afforded anymore!!! :wink:

It’s up to generation X or later to decide if they are willing to pay more tax to benefit all or carry on paying as little tax as possible so only the tax paying individual think they might be better off.
Imagine having to pay a basic rate of income tax of 35%. Do a quick calculation and see how much you are left with to spend. I don’t have to imagine it because it was a reality in the seventIes.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Oct 2020, 3:13pm

Combine your marginal rate of income tax with your NI contributions to calculate your true tax rate. Ever since the dead sheep, it's been higher than many people believe

jgurney
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby jgurney » 17 Oct 2020, 3:15pm

rjb wrote: ..only applies to residents within the M25. Pensioners from outside the M25 are only ..

Nothing to do with the M25. This applies to residents of Greater London. Several places inside the M25, such as Walton and Rickmansworth, are not part of Greater London.
Last edited by jgurney on 17 Oct 2020, 3:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

philvantwo
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby philvantwo » 17 Oct 2020, 3:23pm

People who've never worked and claimed benefits all their life's will still get free travel. I've always said they should pay income tax and national insurance on their benefits.

jgurney
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby jgurney » 17 Oct 2020, 3:26pm

mercalia wrote: But there is an anomaly. I can go to Dartford and back but people living there cant.

Do you mean by train? The same applies to trains to Hampton Court and Thames Ditton - they are in Surrey, yet London pensioners passes are valid on them but Surrey ones are not.

The worst complications around these passes arose along the English/Welsh and English/Scottish borders. Generally, each nations' pensioners passes are not valid in the other nations. That caused some problems on cross-border buses, and became really absurd in Boundary Road, Chester, where the border runs down the middle of the road, so technically buses going one way along it are in England and those going the other way are in Wales. Special exceptions had to be applied

jgurney
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Re: Bailing out TFL and Pensioners

Postby jgurney » 17 Oct 2020, 3:36pm

mercalia wrote:Seems like the govt wants tfl to remove free transport for the 60+ incl pensioners in London as a condition of more bail out money

https://news.sky.com/story/government-offers-transport-for-london-further-1631bn-bailout-12105037?

.... There is a problem with the proposal. At the moment any one in England can use the local buses anywhere so if London pensioners could no longer use the buses for free we would have the anomaly that visiting pensioners still could!


I suspect the Sky report has been written by someone who does nort clearly understand the proposal. The plot is not to remove London pensioners bus passes altogether, but to remove the additional benefits above the basic bus pass. London Freedom Pass holders (pensioners and disabled people) can as well as using buses after 9:30 without paying also use buses before 9:30 and can use trains within the London area. Some other local authorities do similar things, e.g. Blackpool resident pensioners can use the Blackpool trams free while others cannot. The govt seems to want London resident pensioners stripped of these extras and confined to free bus travel after 9:30 only.