Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown 2020 : 3rd Lockdown 2021

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simonineaston
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby simonineaston » 22 Dec 2020, 6:15pm

We think. Others animals do. Virus just is.
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby roubaixtuesday » 22 Dec 2020, 6:19pm

mikeymo wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:...( that’s one big reason why there’s never been a successful vaccine for the ‘common cold’) which is ( are )a mutated relic(s) of the ‘Spanish flu’ pandemic, from circa 1918. ...


So does that mean there wasn't such a thing as "the common cold" before 1918?


No, because it's not correct.

Symptoms of the common cold are caused by a huge range of diverse viruses.

Some are arguably far more different from each other than we are from ants, or octopuses, including both DNA and RNA based organisms.

Rhinoviruses, adenoviruses, coronaviruses and others are included, as well as some influenza and parainfluenza viruses.

mercalia
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby mercalia » 23 Dec 2020, 4:25am

DevonDamo wrote:
mercalia wrote:Since Covid19+ seems to have started in London and the SE I wouldnt be surprised if it came from the EU in the first place since there are so many foreigners here, rather than being a home grown mutation. I wonder if the EU is looking for new strains at all.


The frustrating thing is that this statement is probably true in that (having had over 2 months of free travel) the new strain is almost certainly present in most other countries but that most places won't have as thorough a genetic sequencing programme as we do. The problem with taking a xenophobic approach to a pandemic is that, as with Donald Trump and his 'Wuhan flu' or 'China virus,' finger-pointing is used by those in charge as an alternative to actually doing something effective.


The ref to London, which is a melting pot of the world, rather than cities in the north is significant.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/22/new-variant-coronavirus-genomic-sars-cov-2-pandemic?

One question that may never be answered is where the new variant came from. The first place we detected it, by looking back through virus samples, was in Kent and London. But it’s not clear whether it actually emerged there. It’s worth remembering that the UK undertakes much more Sars-CoV-2 sequencing than many other countries, and the fact that we’ve found it here may say more about that than about its ultimate origin.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9079333/How-Britain-shot-foot-best-world-sequencing-viruses.html


The COG-UK consortium is on its own responsible for generating and making publicly available more than 100,000 genomes of the disease, accounting for 50 per cent of the contributions from the rest of the world combined.

Top virologists in the US admitted today the strain could have emerged there and went undetected because America's genomics scheme is 'sporadic', while Covid variants with near-identical genetic make up have been reported in South Africa and Brazil.

Belgian's top Covid expert said the 'variant has already spread more than we think', and claimed it was not 'completely fair' to slap travel bans on the UK simply because its advanced genome sequencing had detected the mutation first.

Ben@Forest
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Ben@Forest » 23 Dec 2020, 9:05am

mercalia wrote:...The ref to London, which is a melting pot of the world, rather than cities in the north is significant.


London is certainly often referred to as the world's most global city and that it is, comparatively, very well mixed in terms of its ethnic distribution. That is usually described as a good thing and just how tolerant and respectful we as a nation, or perhaps London as a city, are/is. However it must also surely mean there is a good chance any mutations and spread are more likely there - even if it is simply because despite lockdowns or restrictions there is still a significant amount of global traffic in and out?

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 23 Dec 2020, 12:36pm

simonineaston wrote:We think. Others animals do. Virus just is.

Absolutely spot on.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 23 Dec 2020, 12:41pm

mikeymo wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:...( that’s one big reason why there’s never been a successful vaccine for the ‘common cold’) which is ( are )a mutated relic(s) of the ‘Spanish flu’ pandemic, from circa 1918. ...


So does that mean there wasn't such a thing as "the common cold" before 1918?


As has been said, the ‘common cold’ can in fact be attributed to a big diverse melting pot of viruses, but having a human Coronavirus relic in there, certainly doesn’t help.

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simonineaston
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby simonineaston » 23 Dec 2020, 1:33pm

I imagine, back in the day, when god was busy getting us all ready, just when he'd nearly finished and was admiring, say, the tiger and perhaps the cauliflower, he got a tickly nose and sneezed - splat! - at 100 miles per hour the virus was born...
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Vorpal
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Vorpal » 23 Dec 2020, 4:13pm

Some personal comments have been removed.

Please try to keep the discussion objective.

Thanks.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

DevonDamo
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby DevonDamo » 23 Dec 2020, 4:47pm

Vorpal wrote:Some personal comments have been removed.

Please try to keep the discussion objective.

Thanks.


I'm sorry Vorpal but this has gone far enough. You've left a comment up which several of us have pointed out as xenophobic. I've linked to several other examples of that same person making a continuous stream of similar comments. He now knows he can get away with this sort of thing without sanction - there's a more recent example of him using the expression "good riddance" when referring to a genocide. Not only have your moderators taken no action, but your latest recruit is seen on that same thread using the term 'coloured' to describe black people. I appreciate that was probably just someone who didn't know any better, but it shouldn't be up to the users to explain this sort of thing to the moderators: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30999175

I appreciate that good manners is desirable, but if the moderators aren't capable of recognising and dealing with this sort of behaviour, then they're not up to the job.

Vorpal
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Vorpal » 23 Dec 2020, 5:19pm

When you see things that are offensive, *please* report them.

If you must respond, please do so by pointing out what is wrong with the post in an objective way. A number of people on this thread have done so.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Ellieb
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Ellieb » 23 Dec 2020, 5:20pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:...( that’s one big reason why there’s never been a successful vaccine for the ‘common cold’) which is ( are )a mutated relic(s) of the ‘Spanish flu’ pandemic, from circa 1918. ...


So does that mean there wasn't such a thing as "the common cold" before 1918?


As has been said, the ‘common cold’ can in fact be attributed to a big diverse melting pot of viruses, but having a human Coronavirus relic in there, certainly doesn’t help.

Spanish flu is not a coronavirus if that is what you are implying.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 23 Dec 2020, 5:30pm

Ellieb wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
So does that mean there wasn't such a thing as "the common cold" before 1918?


As has been said, the ‘common cold’ can in fact be attributed to a big diverse melting pot of viruses, but having a human Coronavirus relic in there, certainly doesn’t help.

Spanish flu is not a coronavirus if that is what you are implying.


Yes it was. It is pretty much universally accepted (by every one in the entire world except you apparently) that it originated as an Avian coronavirus. The pandemic was fuelled later by viruses that weren’t all Coronaviruses, but it all kicked off with one.

Jdsk
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby Jdsk » 23 Dec 2020, 5:45pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Ellieb wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
As has been said, the ‘common cold’ can in fact be attributed to a big diverse melting pot of viruses, but having a human Coronavirus relic in there, certainly doesn’t help.

Spanish flu is not a coronavirus if that is what you are implying.

Yes it was. It is pretty much universally accepted (by every one in the entire world except you apparently) that it originated as an Avian coronavirus. The pandemic was fuelled later by viruses that weren’t all Coronaviruses, but it all kicked off with one.

The 1918 virus was an H1N1 influenza A virus. That's an orthomyxovirus, not a coronavirus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html

Jonathan

DevonDamo
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby DevonDamo » 23 Dec 2020, 5:51pm

Vorpal wrote:When you see things that are offensive, *please* report them.

If you must respond, please do so by pointing out what is wrong with the post in an objective way. A number of people on this thread have done so.


I appreciate you taking the time to respond. You'll have already seen the offending post as you deleted my responses to it where I've (a) quoted it and (b) pointed out in an objective way what was wrong with it. I say this was objective because I didn't refer to the person making the comment but to the content of the post itself, which was clearly xenophobic as others had also pointed out. Could I ask why you haven't deleted the xenophobic post - allowing it to remain several times above - but you have carefully deleted all the replies from those pointing out that it was xenophobic?

Finally, might I point this out. In one of my posts which you deleted, I cited several examples of the same person making other xenophobic comments and in my last post above, I cite him applauding genocide. The reason I haven't 'reported' any of these posts is that it is playing into the hands of the racists. They look forward to playing the "you cant say anything these days" trope. I would rather counter their unpleasant views than simply seek to censor them and allow them to play the martyr. However, I appear to be fighting a losing battle here because my posts are being censored because of spurious claims of bad-manners, whilst racist, Covid-conspiracy, etc. posts appear to be given free reign. Surely if you are responding to a report of my 'bad manners' it would make good sense to also review whatever it was that I was responding to?

mikeymo
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Re: WInter 2020 : Covid-19 : 2nd Lockdown

Postby mikeymo » 23 Dec 2020, 6:13pm

DevonDamo wrote:
Vorpal wrote:When you see things that are offensive, *please* report them.

If you must respond, please do so by pointing out what is wrong with the post in an objective way. A number of people on this thread have done so.


I appreciate you taking the time to respond. You'll have already seen the offending post as you deleted my responses to it where I've (a) quoted it and (b) pointed out in an objective way what was wrong with it. I say this was objective because I didn't refer to the person making the comment but to the content of the post itself, which was clearly xenophobic as others had also pointed out. Could I ask why you haven't deleted the xenophobic post - allowing it to remain several times above - but you have carefully deleted all the replies from those pointing out that it was xenophobic?

Finally, might I point this out. In one of my posts which you deleted, I cited several examples of the same person making other xenophobic comments and in my last post above, I cite him applauding genocide. The reason I haven't 'reported' any of these posts is that it is playing into the hands of the racists. They look forward to playing the "you cant say anything these days" trope. I would rather counter their unpleasant views than simply seek to censor them and allow them to play the martyr. However, I appear to be fighting a losing battle here because my posts are being censored because of spurious claims of bad-manners, whilst racist, Covid-conspiracy, etc. posts appear to be given free reign. Surely if you are responding to a report of my 'bad manners' it would make good sense to also review whatever it was that I was responding to?


I agree.

Whether something is "offensive" is subjective. I may or may not find something "offensive", regardless of whether or not it is intended to cause offence. But sure, if you want everything that any of us find offensive to be reported, prepare for a barrage of reports for you to deal with. I find the paint colours of lots of members' bikes offensive, to be honest. And don't get me started on bar-end shifters, yuk!

The mods, in their determination to maintain a certain "tone" in the forum, sometimes seem unable to distinguish between abuse and what some people may find "offensive".

I have been moderated for making allegedly "personal" comments, and advised not to make "personal" comments. Any response to a post is essentially "personal" because one is replying to a person. Accusing somebody of xenophobia is "personal", expressing an opinion about another forum member's motives is "personal".

Most people here know what abusive language is. The mods are in danger of making themselves look ridiculous in their attempts to preserve faux-politeness.
Last edited by mikeymo on 23 Dec 2020, 6:13pm, edited 1 time in total.