A salutary tale......caveat emptor

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pete75
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby pete75 » 9 Nov 2020, 1:22pm

Sweep wrote:
pete75 wrote:See the post from mod Graham a page or two back. The sellers account has been deactivated so there's no point in publishing any details about them.

my questions weren't about the individual but the nature of their profile on here.


If they're gone that doesn't really matter any more.

pete75
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby pete75 » 9 Nov 2020, 1:26pm

simonineaston wrote:The notion of restricting access has benefits both ways - 2 examples: I'm a member of the Moulton Bicycle Club. The club website has a for sale / wanted section. Although many of the pages on the website are publicly accessible, only members can post / edit entries on the sales or wants pages. These pages are accessable (read-only) to non-members, but only after an interval of some weeks after posting. It is not possible to post an ad. if you are not a member.
Example 2. I used to ride motorcycles and have a stash of spare parts for the Honda CB400 F - the so-called four hundred four (a lovely little bike, but that's another topic...). I would like to sell the spares, in order to benefit somebody who is trying to restore one of their own. I don't want much for them and I'm blowed if I'm gong to take them down the dump... however, most of the Honda owners club websites are set up like the MBC - you have to be a member to post on the ad.s section - but there's no point in me joining and paying (say) £25 to do so, just to post one ad.
Personally, I can see the sense in insisting that only members can post on sales / wants pages - indeed, I'd set a minimum contributions limit, too. However, I readily accept that this is restrictive - indeed, its supposed to be restrictive!
So there you go - which is the best way - protect - or attempt to protect - fellow members by insisting that only paid members can post ads. - or make them free to all & sundry?? Which is better? At the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing, that is trust & diligence (OK - that's two...). And the unfortunate fact is that the internet is the perfect place for people who are less than scrupulous to adopt a deceitful presence. Its very ubiquity / anonimity make us all vulnerable to the cheats and [less polite word omitted]...


Classic Honda CB on Facebook. Described thus 'Steve Beard originally started this group purely for classic Honda CB's.
If you want to sell, buy, part ex or just tell your restoration story go for it.'
https://www.facebook.com/groups/972071092859613/

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Sweep
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby Sweep » 9 Nov 2020, 1:52pm

pete75 wrote:
Sweep wrote:
pete75 wrote:See the post from mod Graham a page or two back. The sellers account has been deactivated so there's no point in publishing any details about them.

my questions weren't about the individual but the nature of their profile on here.


If they're gone that doesn't really matter any more.


Yes it does - as a useful caution caveat emptor to others - which I thought was the purpose of the thread.

When I have a mo will try to post my dazzling insights gained from drug induced chanting/a few years on here on danger signs to look for.
Sweep

Cyril Haearn
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby Cyril Haearn » 9 Nov 2020, 2:50pm

Would it be possible to introduce approved ranks, like in the military?
Private, Corporal, Captain, Major..
Junior, senior?
Or like the hostel categories the YHA used to use: ssss
Simple, standard, superior, special
There were only about three specials :wink:
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

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simonineaston
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby simonineaston » 9 Nov 2020, 3:05pm

Classic Honda CB on Facebook. Described thus 'Steve Beard originally started this group purely for classic Honda CB's.
If you want to sell, buy, part ex or just tell your restoration story go for it.'
Good link - thanks :-)
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

thirdcrank
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby thirdcrank » 9 Nov 2020, 3:10pm

I'd be interested to know the extent of any problem in terms of frequency.

My memory is hardly evidence of anything but I don't remember many (any?) similar threads. IIRC I've had one PM from somebody asking my opinion about an unsatisfactory transaction..

This thread hasn't triggered any "Now you come to mention it ...." responses from people who feel they have been badly treated but didn't like to raise it before.

Perhaps the mods get complaints we don't read about?

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Graham
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby Graham » 9 Nov 2020, 4:19pm

thirdcrank wrote:Perhaps the mods get complaints we don't read about?

The serious complaints about Small Ads tend to be aired for all-to-see.
I cannot think of any that have been kept (fully) hidden. But I might have forgotten.

I would guess they occur about once every two years.

Mainly poor communications on one side or the other.
Rarely out&out deception / ripoff / theft / fraud.

thirdcrank
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby thirdcrank » 9 Nov 2020, 4:24pm

If it's not broken ......

Fairweather
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby Fairweather » 9 Nov 2020, 4:42pm

Graham wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:Perhaps the mods get complaints we don't read about?

The serious complaints about Small Ads tend to be aired for all-to-see.
I cannot think of any that have been kept (fully) hidden. But I might have forgotten.

I would guess they occur about once every two years.

Mainly poor communications on one side or the other.
Rarely out&out deception / ripoff / theft / fraud.


I've bought a few things on the forum and been relatively satisfied, when buying second hand normally if it functions as described and the cosmetics aren't too bad I'm just relieved to get it. Like was said above, expectations can sometimes outstrip the reality of buying second hand.

Perhaps the OP can post some photos to air his grievance? I've bought a few second hand frames on eBay over the years, and I've learned to curb my expectations. If it's not dented and the track is true and good then I know to expect the usual knocks that paint can take over the years. My maxim is - if you want perfect, spend the money on new. That way disappointment is just delayed! (Until the first chip!) :lol:

pete75
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby pete75 » 9 Nov 2020, 6:14pm

Sweep wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Sweep wrote:my questions weren't about the individual but the nature of their profile on here.


If they're gone that doesn't really matter any more.


Yes it does - as a useful caution caveat emptor to others - which I thought was the purpose of the thread.

When I have a mo will try to post my dazzling insights gained from drug induced chanting/a few years on here on danger signs to look for.


I wonder what they are? I bought something on here several years ago which failed to arrive. It was from a forum member I'd bought several items from in satisfactory transactions. He refunded me in the form of a paypal cheque (yes there are or were such things). It bounced. Sent him several PMs none responded to. I knew his name and address because he'd put it on another parcel I'd received from him. I suppose I could have spent time and effort to recover the money but as it was only 40 quid I thought what the hell. The time I'd have spent was worth more to me than that.

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Sweep
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby Sweep » 9 Nov 2020, 6:42pm

well that's a very odd case.

Don't see how anything could have protected you from that.
Sweep

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby pete75 » 9 Nov 2020, 7:03pm

Sweep wrote:well that's a very odd case.

Don't see how anything could have protected you from that.

My point is how can you tell from the nature of a profile that a seller may swindle when it can happen after several satisfactory transactions with the same person.

De Sisti
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby De Sisti » 9 Nov 2020, 7:45pm

Fairweather wrote:- if you want perfect, spend the money on new. That way disappointment is just delayed!

This should be a "sticky" at the top of the For Sale thread. :!:

LaurenceReading
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011, 2:12pm

Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby LaurenceReading » 9 Nov 2020, 8:53pm

Some forums use a bad traders thread which I think can be helpful. Sometimes also useful to name individuals so that others can avoid buying from them. https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/171676/

Also chargeback is worth considering... https://www.money.co.uk/guides/chargeba ... y-back.htm

Good luck!

lescargo
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Re: A salutary tale......caveat emptor

Postby lescargo » 9 Nov 2020, 11:12pm

My condolences to NEILOB.

This exploitation of the site was inevitable.
We must not in any way blame the regulators.
AFAIAA volunteers are not out on their bikes as us, but *running the show* for us using a set of operating rules that should NEVER have been
allowed.

As previous posts have mentioned the opening of this previous "club" facility free to non-members was crass stupidity.
A bit of history--
I believe CTC members "For Sale and Wants"-also *Companions Wanted* adverts were first available in CTC Gazzette from 1880's as a
facility to recycle goods among or communicate with other members.
That continued for about 120 years then there was an announcement in the magazine--"Due to increasing printing costs members will now
need to pay for their adverts in CLUB MAG.
Which is, of course, paid for by OUR subscriptions.
That was the second time I didn't Renew subs. but had to eventually re-join to allow me to ride French events.
Moving a few years on, a clubmate (I'm in a local road club) aware that I was also CTC member, asked if I had seen specific BARGAIN on CTC
site.
No I hadn't cos then I, like how many other older members, did not have pc.
Eventually I did get pc. and then discovered that site facilities/ access was openly available to non members without charge/fee.
At first opportunity, I only attend agm's within 150 mile radius of home,300 mile return trip enough to drive in a day and cant afford overnight
stay, at Sheffield agm 2012? I raised under any other business-
"Why is CTC spending money providing non-members with free CTC services after previously charging members to advertise in their club
magazine?"
Reply from chair was that "this didn't cost much (a penny was too much for me for the free-loaders) and it offered a route to CTC and
POSSIBLE extra members!!
I replied- "we now, apparently have non-members freely exploiting the goodwill or is it naivety, of members recycling *cycle goods at bargain
prices to now provide ""seed-corn"" for the vultures to re-sell on ebay etc. and these bargains now no longer available for the fellow club
members it was really intended for!!"
Note at that time CTC was then a club.

Not the complete answer, but a leap forward is to allow only current and those with previous five years memberships (so as to include those
who left at change to Charity status and those who will leave now that OAP. membership has increased by 60% access) to the site.
Is it possible to only allow access via CTC membership number as password ??

None of above will get Neilob his money back.
It is long overdue to reverse this stupid facility for non-members.
It costs CUK to operate this but no tangible benefit to justify this unnecessary cost.
Lets do it-weed out the freeloaders - no member reference, no sanctions possible.