Boris's Brain is missing

[al_yrpal]

I think its possible that our criteria for Covid deaths is different to other countries and that our large numbers of relatively new immigrants may have a bearing on our seemingly high death rates. Living in a place where there was a large number of immigrants with practically nil knowledge of English it wasn't difficult to realise that they werent taking the lockdown or social distancing seriously which explained the regular Covid outbreaks in local factories.

Al

[Oldjohnw]

So the UK didn’t have Covid bad after all. Are you trying a tad too hard to defend the indefensible? And is the UK alone in having non native speaking immigrants?

[Jdsk]

Those death rates are reliable. You get the same overall picture if you use completely different methodology such as clinical attribution, testing or excess deaths.

I'm not aware of any association between immigration rates and deaths from COVID-19 in the three groups for which I showed the data above.

And of course I included all three groups to avoid the knee-jerk denial that our deaths were somehow the EU's fault.

But, as always, it's helpful to know what other people think just happened and who's responsible.

Jonathan

[Paulatic]

Living in a place where there was a large number of immigrants with practically nil knowledge of English it wasn't difficult to realise that they werent taking the lockdown or social distancing seriously which explained the regular Covid outbreaks in local factories.

Al

Nothing at all to do with cramped living conditions or poor Covid working precautions in the factories then? All down to not speaking English. Who’d have guessed it?

[Pebble]

I doubt the UK death rates would have been much different no matter who was in charge, we're a do-what you-want sort of nation, a lot of people were never going to follow the rules too closely in the UK. No surprise France and Italy are up there with us, and even less suprise at Germany doing so much better.

[Jdsk]

National characteristics don't explain the variation between death rates, and most of them are stereotypes rather than based on any evidence. (I deliberately didn't include any rich Far Eastern countries where this may be genuinely different.)

The UK is pretty law-abiding by many measures.

And even extreme stereotypes won't explain the variation between the Nordic countries.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

And none of the above alters the fact that we have a lying, corrupt and self serving government.

[al_yrpal]

Yup, the easy way out. Blame it on the government. Suggest anything else might be a factor and get vilified... Leaves one wondering why the opposition is much less popular?

Al

[Jdsk]

No-one has vilified anyone. Posters have expressed different views.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

I think its possible that our criteria for Covid deaths is different to other countries and that our large numbers of relatively new immigrants may have a bearing on our seemingly high death rates. Living in a place where there was a large number of immigrants with practically nil knowledge of English it wasn't difficult to realise that they werent taking the lockdown or social distancing seriously which explained the regular Covid outbreaks in local factories.

Al

Remarkable stuff.

It's of course possible that reporting could go either way, but the boffins are of course all over this, and concluded for the first wave, our death toll (England and Wales) was the worst of any country they looked at, when measured equivalently.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1112-0

The second wave is ongoing...

As for blaming immigrants, that's contemptible.

[Jdsk]

Nothing at all to do with cramped living conditions or poor Covid working precautions in the factories then? All down to not speaking English. Who’d have guessed it?

On the vulnerability front (as opposed to slow implementation of national isolation measures) I'd add working in jobs that can't be done from home... and the large inequalities in health before the outbreak.

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Its a fact that BAME folk have fared far worse with infections and deaths during the pandemic, stating the obvious isnt contemptible. We English speakers were deluged with news in English about the dangers of infection. Imagine you cant speak the language and therefore dont appreciate the seriousness of the pandemic? How can the situation that BAME people have suffered be portrayed as blame? Living in rich Chester, remote Northumberland, the borders, or genteel Oxford it is very easy to be unaware of the bigger picture.

Al

[Jdsk]

Its a fact that BAME folk have fared far worse with infections and deaths during the pandemic, stating the obvious isnt contemptible. We English speakers were deluged with news in English about the dangers of infection. Imagine you cant speak the language and therefore dont appreciate the seriousness of the pandemic? How can the situation that BAME people have suffered be portrayed as blame? Living in rich Chester, remote Northumberland, the borders, or genteel Oxford it is very easy to be unaware of the bigger picture.

What fraction of BAME people in the UK do you think can't understand English?

Or are "recent immigrants"?

And what fraction of recent immigrants are "BAME people"?

Thanks

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

Its a fact that BAME folk have fared far worse with infections and deaths during the pandemic, stating the obvious isnt contemptible. We English speakers were deluged with news in English about the dangers of infection. Imagine you cant speak the language and therefore dont appreciate the seriousness of the pandemic? How can the situation that BAME people have suffered be portrayed as blame? Living in rich Chester, remote Northumberland, the borders, or genteel Oxford it is very easy to be unaware of the bigger picture.

Al

It is a fact that poverty is correlated to COVID risk.

It is a fact that poor working conditions is correlated to COVID risk.

It is a fact that the govt did almost nothing about work place safety.

It is a fact that you blame immigrants behaviour "they werent taking the lockdown or social distancing seriously which explained the regular Covid outbreaks in local factories."

It is a fact that native, white English speakers have been at the forefront of COVID denial in the UK

https://mobile.twitter.com/toadmeister

[Jdsk]

Its a fact that BAME folk have fared far worse with infections and deaths during the pandemic, stating the obvious isnt contemptible.

But that isn't what roubaixtuesday said. You alleged that the behaviour of "a large number of immigrants with practically nil knowledge of English" was responsible for the high death rate. It's only after that that you switched to the infections and deaths of "BAME folk".

Jonathan