Boris's Brain is missing

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Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

FDA application has failed:
https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/fda- ... -minister/

DAG's initial thoughts:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/sta ... 1238851586

"Key decision is that the PM's decisions under the ministerial Code *are* amenable to judicial review"

Jonathan
DaveReading
Posts: 742
Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 5:37pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by DaveReading »

"And this judgment does not 'clear' Patel of bullying

And anyone who says that has either not read or not understood the judgment"

Hmmm.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by thirdcrank »

At a time when defendants are remanded in custody awaiting trial for terms now measured in years rather than weeks, this does seem a prodigal use of the resources of a courtroom, two senior judges and seven learned friends (including two top learned friends) and untold ranks of solicitors to settle the question I'd express in Clapham Omnibus lingo as
In Great Britain in 2021, may a prime minister do as they like?
It took a score of pages - almost a quire in the days of the quill pen - of discussion to reach a resounding "Yes."

Reading the judgment (linked earlier in the thread) I found the outline of the history of the ministerial code and its predecessors interesting. It certainly seems to have originated as a genuine rule book for the running of the higher levels of government and nothing more. IMO that's reinforced by its not being published until 1992 when it was no longer an internal document. The judgment includes, without apparent irony, this from Boris Johnson in his forward to his edition of this code:-
“To fulfil this mission, and win back the trust of the British people, we must uphold the highest standards of propriety – and this code sets out how we must do so. There must be no bullying and no harassment; no leaking; no breach of collective responsibility….”
(My emphasis.)
I take that to be an acceptance that politicians had lost the trust of the British people and the implication is this code is now concerned with presentation AKA spin.

So, the prime minister of the day writes the rules and interprets them, with the authority of Parliament.
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by reohn2 »

In an interview on the BBC Politics Live show one Nicki Aiken Tory MP,claimed MP's shouldn't call out Boris Johnson or any other minister a liar when thry're telling lies,because in may damage democracy.

You simply couldn't make this stuff up,incredible!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
Posts: 17357
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by pwa »

But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 8:33am But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
My opinion is the same as my opinion on so many other of Johnson's promises,I'll believe it when I see it happen!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 8:33am But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
So through the last 10 years they have created lots of suffering through their cuts to drug rehab/support that they are now saying were wrong so they are going back to where we were before they started their callous treatment of those in need of help - and we are meant to react positively to their actions positively.

And from recent reports much of that restored money will beed to be spent in Westminster given the alleged drug use there "Commons Speaker goes to police over claims of cocaine use at Westminster" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 70106.html).

Ian
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 Dec 2021, 3:04pm At a time when defendants are remanded in custody awaiting trial for terms now measured in years rather than weeks, this does seem a prodigal use of the resources of a courtroom, two senior judges and seven learned friends (including two top learned friends) and untold ranks of solicitors to settle the question...
I wish that it could be done quicker and cheaper but if we are to defend the rule of law then every so often these things are bound to ripple up to the supreme court.

Jonathan
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 Dec 2021, 3:04pm At a time when defendants are remanded in custody awaiting trial for terms now measured in years rather than weeks, this does seem a prodigal use of the resources of a courtroom, two senior judges and seven learned friends (including two top learned friends) and untold ranks of solicitors to settle the question...
How much court time is wasted because e.g. translator are not available because budgets have been cut so defendant can't understand what is going on? (was reported as a significant issue a coupe of years ago but has more money been put in?).

Maybe if the Gov. did not keep acting unlawfully that would save court time as they would not have to be kept being taken to court (e.g. proroguing Parliament, dodgy deals for their mates, failure to publish contract details as required, etc., etc.)

Ian
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 12:47pmMaybe if the Gov. did not keep acting unlawfully that would save court time as they would not have to be kept being taken to court (e.g. proroguing Parliament, dodgy deals for their mates, failure to publish contract details as required, etc., etc.)
It would.

Jonathan
pwa
Posts: 17357
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 11:45am
pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 8:33am But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
So through the last 10 years they have created lots of suffering through their cuts to drug rehab/support that they are now saying were wrong so they are going back to where we were before they started their callous treatment of those in need of help - and we are meant to react positively to their actions positively.

And from recent reports much of that restored money will beed to be spent in Westminster given the alleged drug use there "Commons Speaker goes to police over claims of cocaine use at Westminster" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 70106.html).

Ian
So you don't see it as a positive move? It will make no positive difference? You don't welcome an announcement that seems to reverse a decade of cuts? The BBC were saying that campaigners for better re-hab facilities were viewing it as a major shift in the right direction..... Like R2, I wait to see what actually materialises, but I am glad they have at least recognised, in words, that big investment is required in this area.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by thirdcrank »

To try and keep this brief, it's reported that primary legislation is being considered to reduce the powers of courts. It's always possible that the parliamentary draughtspeople will cock it up (not a legal expression) but if they were to get the wording and procedures right, I can't see any other outcome than the Supreme Court deferring to the will of parliament.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Jdsk »

pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 8:33am But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
Yes.

1 All drugs policy should be based on harm reduction.
2 It should include those that are legal and those aren't.
3 Personal possession and consumption of cannabis should be decriminalised immediately.
4 And that should be reviewed for all other drugs.
5 I can't tell if this is new money or not, but facilities for rehabilitation are a major component of harm reduction

Jonathan
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 3:23pm
Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 11:45am
pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 8:33am But, to be fair, I did think yesterday's announcements about substantial funding for drug rehab sounded very promising. On the face of it (usual caveats apply) undoing the cuts of the last decade and re-establishing a decent provision to refer drug users to so that they can deal with their issues and not keep clogging the courts. Maybe Boris has had a good thought! Any opinions, anyone?
So through the last 10 years they have created lots of suffering through their cuts to drug rehab/support that they are now saying were wrong so they are going back to where we were before they started their callous treatment of those in need of help - and we are meant to react positively to their actions positively.

And from recent reports much of that restored money will beed to be spent in Westminster given the alleged drug use there "Commons Speaker goes to police over claims of cocaine use at Westminster" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 70106.html).

Ian
So you don't see it as a positive move? It will make no positive difference? You don't welcome an announcement that seems to reverse a decade of cuts? The BBC were saying that campaigners for better re-hab facilities were viewing it as a major shift in the right direction..... Like R2, I wait to see what actually materialises, but I am glad they have at least recognised, in words, that big investment is required in this area.
It depends on what is meant as a "positive move". If I stop punching somebody in their head (hard) is that a "positive move"? It should never have been cut so restoring it undoing a mistake and declaring how caring your party is overlooking to damage done to people through the time you were making those cuts.

Ian
pwa
Posts: 17357
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Boris's Brain is missing

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 4:00pm
pwa wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 3:23pm
Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 11:45am
So through the last 10 years they have created lots of suffering through their cuts to drug rehab/support that they are now saying were wrong so they are going back to where we were before they started their callous treatment of those in need of help - and we are meant to react positively to their actions positively.

And from recent reports much of that restored money will beed to be spent in Westminster given the alleged drug use there "Commons Speaker goes to police over claims of cocaine use at Westminster" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 70106.html).

Ian
So you don't see it as a positive move? It will make no positive difference? You don't welcome an announcement that seems to reverse a decade of cuts? The BBC were saying that campaigners for better re-hab facilities were viewing it as a major shift in the right direction..... Like R2, I wait to see what actually materialises, but I am glad they have at least recognised, in words, that big investment is required in this area.
It depends on what is meant as a "positive move". If I stop punching somebody in their head (hard) is that a "positive move"? It should never have been cut so restoring it undoing a mistake and declaring how caring your party is overlooking to damage done to people through the time you were making those cuts.

Ian
I'd call that a positive move. Just as I would call it a positive move if a drunk decided to give up the booze. Any step in the right direction is a positive move, regardless of what went before.
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