Going carless?

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PH
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
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Re: Going carless?

Post by PH »

Jdsk wrote:PS: Will Enterprise bring the vehicle to you?

I don't know about Enterprise, but Co-Wheels the cars are parked in he street and it's all done on an app. I've been it town, bought something bulky, hired a car (Electric or hybrid) for an hour to take it home. For something longer I'll ride the folder to the booked car and stick it in the boot.
Carlton green
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Carlton green »

PH wrote:For me, part of getting it right has been not trying to replicate what I did by car, though it took a while to stop doing that. Circumstances dictate of course, I have the time and journeys are rarely rushed or urgent. There's also been times in my life where it wouldn't have been possible, and there may be again, though there's also been times when I was racking up the miles and could quite easily have not been.


Running a car can be somewhat expensive and its purchase price does tie up a large sum of money too, in Syd’s case I’d say if you can then sell the car and see how it goes.

In normal times I now do about 5k miles per year but with CV19 that’s dropped to say 10% of that figure. My Mrs also has a car and I wonder about having just one between us, but not all couples would be happy about sharing. As our cars age I’m inclined to eventually have just one car and for it to be Electric.

People’s circumstances vary. A car is very handy for taking things to the tip, bringing the shopping home, moving children between one home and their next and taking grandchildren out for the day, etc. Where we live public transport is poor and doesn’t go to the places I want to visit. Cycling wouldn’t be practical either or I’d be doing it. A motorcycle might do for some things but cold weather riding is hard in several ways, I’m now too old to heal easily and motorists (cars) are an absolute liability to motorcycles.

When I first got a motorbike (many decades back) my horizons were really broadened and so I’d be loathed to give up motorised transport as that would narrow my horizons again. Yes, there are ways around the constraints imposed by being without your own motorised transport but in practice I’m not sure how I’d make such an arrangement work for me in my current circumstances.

I wonder what the OP decided to do?
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Syd
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Syd »

Shortly after Mrs Syd and I moved to where we now live (around 3 and a half years ago) we changed from having two cars to only one and changed the remaining vehicle to have the lower running costs we now have.

What we have decided to do is run an Excel spreadsheet with all the journeys we make and cost out what alternatives would have cost. We can then review in 6 months or so and see what the results are.
PH
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Re: Going carless?

Post by PH »

Syd wrote:What we have decided to do is run an Excel spreadsheet with all the journeys we make and cost out what alternatives would have cost. We can then review in 6 months or so and see what the results are.

That seems to make sense, but for me it turned out to be wrong and the opposite of what I meant when I said:
For me, part of getting it right has been not trying to replicate what I did by car, though it took a while to stop doing that.

As an example - The weekly shopping I drove to every week for decades would cost £8 a week by any other practical transport (Bus there, taxi back) But over a year or two the way I shop evolved, till I was doing it all on foot or bike, at different shops, at different times of the week/month. I now shop more thoughtfully, buy better stuff, pay less for it and have no transport costs.
I'm not saying that will be the case for you, it may be something completely different, I would be surprised if it didn't change some things you do, or that you could know that in advance, or work it out with a spreadsheet.
Syd
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Syd »

PH wrote:
Syd wrote:What we have decided to do is run an Excel spreadsheet with all the journeys we make and cost out what alternatives would have cost. We can then review in 6 months or so and see what the results are.

That seems to make sense, but for me it turned out to be wrong and the opposite of what I meant when I said:
For me, part of getting it right has been not trying to replicate what I did by car, though it took a while to stop doing that.

As an example - The weekly shopping I drove to every week for decades would cost £8 a week by any other practical transport (Bus there, taxi back) But over a year or two the way I shop evolved, till I was doing it all on foot or bike, at different shops, at different times of the week/month. I now shop more thoughtfully, buy better stuff, pay less for it and have no transport costs.
I'm not saying that will be the case for you, it may be something completely different, I would be surprised if it didn't change some things you do, or that you could know that in advance, or work it out with a spreadsheet.

We are quite fortunate to live where we do. Whilst right beside the coast we are less than three miles from the city centre and have never driven there; generally walk or use the bus. Even food shopping is done on foot or home delivery. Driving is generally not our first choice and that will be reflected in what gets recorded.

That goes some way to explain the low annual mileage.
Oldjohnw
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Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Going carless?

Post by Oldjohnw »

I do about 5000 miles per year since retirement. When I retired Mrs got rid of her car which previously she had needed for work at a school out in the country.

Pre Covid we used the bus both for rare trips to town but also as starting points for walks. Hopefully that will come back. Unfortunately the bus service is very infrequent - at best two hourly - and ceases at 6.00pm. it is hopeless for appointments. So we need the car for this and for our choirs. We also use it for visiting our daughter and son which would be otherwise virtually impossible. We holiday by train where possible and next year have booked a cottage less that 30 miles away. Once there we will not use the car.

All of our food is delivered: Tesco, butcher, veg box, baker, Peace with the Wild by post .

And I have my bike for top up shopping.
John
Carlton green
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Carlton green »

To my perspective both PH and Syd are heading in a good direction if not necessarily taking the same route. My own mindset would be, like Syd, to form a decision based on gathered data from my current lifestyle. Of course there’s nothing that wrong with just making the leap to car-less and seeing how it goes, working out what to do when you need to, but it’s just not a way of doing things that works well for me. That leap could be too abrupt for me but a gradual lifestyle change is not too unthinkable.

Making the leap to objective orientated thinking has its hazards but I would agree that PH’s (evolved?) way of doing things has merit, I’m not sure that I could make it work for me ... though the lockdown has forced me to do a lot of things differently and some changes might stick. Consider what you actually want to achieve (eg. food in the cupboard) and then see what alternative ways there are of meeting that goal. Note that some ways of reaching our goals will be more efficient than others and then look at our ability to tolerate debatably less efficient ways. It’s not a poor example but consider getting to your workplace, one might move to live next door to it, walk, cycle, take public transport or take a car. Depending on circumstances - which vary widely between people - some options will be more practical and efficient than others. Some options might not be viable, others tolerable and maybe some satisfactory. One might choose to tolerate one course of action though another might be or appear to be more efficient.

We have many goals and some will be more soluble than others ... as I sit here I wonder how some of them could have been managed without a car of my own and spot others for which a car is more helpful than actually essential. This ‘discussion’ takes me back to my twenties when I couldn’t afford a car and did everything by bike and public transport, you can do much without a car but despite that transport poverty had an impact and a lot of the time my life did seem a painful and frustrating grind. Could I really have structured things a lot better? Maybe, but I really can’t think how and life seemed more about survival then rather than living. However, perhaps it’s different when you can afford a car and have options open (and visible) to you that allow you to choose to be car-less.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Going carless?

Post by Jdsk »

How refreshing to read that support for the importance of the examined life. Not dogma, fashion or tribalism, but thinking about where you want to be and working out how to get there.

"ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ"
[translation: The unexamined life is not worth living]

Thank you

Jonathan
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NUKe
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Re: Going carless?

Post by NUKe »

having just done 9 months carless I have decided to go back to owning one. Actually I never stopped, but the old one was broken down and I never got round to fixing it or replacing it.

We coped quite well for the period, shopping as we can walk into to town and we have a butchers, green grocers Fish mongers and now a deli all with within a 10 minute walk along with 2 small supermarkets. Our nearest major town is Ipswich we tend to use the bus and train regardless of whether we have a car or not, But to be honest Felixstowe supplies most of our needs. I used hire cars for the longer stuff such as picking daughter up from Uni, and I have been a cycle commuter for the last 20 years.

What finally decided me to go back to car ownership was the mounting pile of stuff we had to take to the tip, the second child now at university as well and the coming home dates never coinciding between daughter and son so potentially so potentially 6 hire cars a year for that as well. the tip and other inconvenient short Journeys a car club such as the enterprise one would be perfect but alas last time I looked nearest car is about 8 miles away. Also are they still running in Covid time? My wife is from NI and here parents aren't getting any younger. so if she needed to get over there quick having a car to get the airport again a car club might be the answer for the 2 hour journey to the airport.

One thing I have noted over the last few years is as retail moves out of town into retail parks that sort of shopping whilst doable by bike, is a pain in the rear if you want to use public transport.
NUKe
_____________________________________
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Going carless?

Post by Jdsk »

Any experiences of non-commercial sharing?

Thanks

Jonathan
Tangled Metal
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Plato quoted in a discussion on ditching the car. Will his relevance ever die? :D

We cut down a lot in our car use. My partner working from home almost exclusively helps. I can't do that. However we got a van which means we try to use that less. The car has issues which means we hate using it at times. Summer only I reckon.

We're moving further from work which conversely will make car less commuting easier. Train and bike mixed modal commuting.

However, there's a serious work/ private life issue at stake going without any vehicle. More time travelling for me. Lack of shopping choices for groceries means vehicle to shop. Sure there's convenience stores, no grocers or butchers, but they don't have everything we need and besides cost a lot more too. There's many other reasons such as our son's activities end up involving car travel. No option but that.

The idea of travelling from shop to shop getting different things from each instead of one supermarket is simply put a lifestyle thing. You can only realistically do it if your lifestyle fits. Retired or not working without a family too. It's the curse of supermarkets that the convenience of them means losing them is often unthinkable even impossible. To paint this shopping around as possible needs the caveat that it's only possible if it suits your life. Imho it's more a retired way of food shopping.
Jdsk
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Jdsk »

And there was me thinking that it was a Brazilian footballer!

; - )

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Going carless?

Post by Jdsk »

NUKe wrote:One thing I have noted over the last few years is as retail moves out of town into retail parks that sort of shopping whilst doable by bike, is a pain in the rear if you want to use public transport.

Yes... nothing works properly without an integrated transport policy.

Lots of relatively poor people use taxis to get their shopping home. And my wife and others on this forum run local schemes for lifts to shops, GPs, hospitals etc.

Jonathan
merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Going carless?

Post by merseymouth »

Oh Dear me Syd, When a cyclist falls into the old "Road Fund Licence" trap it may lead others to think they are going gaga?
Cast your mind back to 1937, that was when Winston Spencer Churchill abolished such a levy, the first and probably the last time a politician utter the truth, in that instance the the money was not ring fenced for that purpose!
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) is what replaced it, which is still what is levied today.
Exempt & Zero Rated Vehicle incur no financial cost, all other vehicles are charged at a pre-determined rate of dosh.
So unless you are hoping to ease your way into a "Death Camp", Care Home, choose you words more carefully! :shock: :roll: :lol: MM
paddler
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Going carless?

Post by paddler »

merseymouth wrote:Oh Dear me Syd, When a cyclist falls into the old "Road Fund Licence" trap it may lead others to think they are going gaga?
Cast your mind back to 1937, that was when Winston Spencer Churchill abolished such a levy, the first and probably the last time a politician utter the truth, in that instance the the money was not ring fenced for that purpose!
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) is what replaced it, which is still what is levied today.
Exempt & Zero Rated Vehicle incur no financial cost, all other vehicles are charged at a pre-determined rate of dosh.
So unless you are hoping to ease your way into a "Death Camp", Care Home, choose you words more carefully! :shock: :roll: :lol: MM


Death camp! :D First time I've heard them called that! Used to hate getting jobs in them.
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