Do Not Resuscitate

[thirdcrank]

... on the matter of Hospices at end of life an aunt of mine had terminal cancer and she briefly went into one but they pressured her into leaving her valuable house to them so she left and died at home - she was found dead, she died alone it seeems in great pain.

Just to make it clear what I was saying, my mother was 94 when she could no longer live independently relying on the extra support family members were giving and after a trip to A&E and a couple of days in hospital she was admitted to a residential home where she had been going 2-3 times a week for day care: bath etc, meal and a bit of company. The move was timely and inevitable. She was physically fit eg still able to walk up and down a couple of flights of stairs leading to her flat or the several hundred yards to her GP - so long as I led the way. She had dementia.

Had I been asked about DNR I'd not have hesitated to agree on the basis that my mother had always been clear about her wishes over many years. She had observed dementia in other long-lived family members and knew what she was talking about.

Apart from antibiotics when she had her cataracts removed, she took no long-term medication but her BP etc were loads better than mine. Once she was in care, the prescriptions increased. Eventually she was admitted to EMI care. The personal care she received was excellent but eventually she died a lingering death because as I already said, physically she was as tough as boots.

Bearing in mind that carers in residential and nursing homes are at the bottom of the hierarchy, they were all great.

I had all manner of problems over that period and with a couple of real exceptions, the admin at the local authority, NHS, DHSS, probate, was rubbish at best. Bear in mind that my CV includes the detailed course provided by Citizens Advice for volunteer advice workers.

[bikerider]

A walking friend (now deceased) had the post title tattooed across her chest.

John

[mjr]

The letters and emails flooded in after we revealed the experience of Lucy Jeal, 93, who in September opened the door of her South London council flat to a 'frailty nursing practitioner'.

After an hour-long conversation, Lucy was told she would be sent a DNAR because she is frail.

So is the lesson to refuse politely but forcefully to talk to such practitioners or what? Would telling them to go away demonstrate that you're not frail, or suggest you're so gaga that a DNR is issued?

You claiming this just made up?

One strong point about the DM what ever its failings is it seems to report particular experiences of people on the ground.

You don't know that and the DM does have a long history of making stuff up to sell papers.

[thirdcrank]

I cannot see how a DNR decision might apply to somebody who wasn't in some sort of care setting eg hospital or care home, unless if it was the person's own wish and they had a means of making it clear - perhaps the most obvious being ensuring emergency help was not called.

If somebody was visiting older people and talking to them like that, my first thought would be that they were on some variation of a bogus official scam.

OTOH, somebody aged 93 might not be the most reliable witness of what had happened, no matter what the bona fides of the visitor. That's the motivation for a lot of bogus official scams.

[Psamathe]

I cannot see how a DNR decision might apply to somebody who wasn't in some sort of care setting eg hospital or care home, unless if it was the person's own wish and they had a means of making it clear - perhaps the most obvious being ensuring emergency help was not called.

If somebody was visiting older people and talking to them like that, my first thought would be that they were on some variation of a bogus official scam.

OTOH, somebody aged 93 might not be the most reliable witness of what had happened, no matter what the bona fides of the visitor. That's the motivation for a lot of bogus official scams.

Early days of pandemic GPs were discussing DNRs with elderly patients (I know 1st hand of one instance).

Ian

[thirdcrank]

.... Early days of pandemic GPs were discussing DNRs with elderly patients (I know 1st hand of one instance).

I can see that pandemic or no pandemic, there's value in a GP knowing their patients' wishes on something like this and you don't find out without asking. Having said that, the likelihood of a GP in modern circumstances being there when somebody is about to activate the defibrillator etc., seems small. I'm not up-to-date with the current state of the IT project(s) intended to share medical notes across the NHS. I here more about fiascos than progress. If there's an established system for a patient's own GP establishing their wishes before it becomes an issue then having the info on the patient's personal record would be useful if they went into hospital etc.

Let's also remember that objecting to a DNR is no guarantee of successful resuscitation.

[Jdsk]

General practice records are fully computerised across the NHS in all of the UK. (And have been for some time. And were genuinely world-leading.)

But there are many others who need to know your wishes, which leads to letters in special bottles in 'frigs etc.

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

General practice records are fully computerised across the NHS in all of the UK. (And have been for some time. And were genuinely world-leading.)

But there are many others who need to know your wishes, which leads to letters in special bottles in 'frigs etc.

Jonathan

If that means that the results discussions like I've referred to are available to medics when push comes to shove, then that can only be a good thing. (I'll bite my tongue about doctors who do not read even their own notes at a follow-up consultation.)

IME, there's the real problem of officials in every sense of the word visiting elderly people at home and unannounced. In an ideal world, people not 100% able to cope with callers wouldn't be living alone, but it's not an ideal world. The bona fide official visiting with a form to complete in a hurry is unacceptable, but IME it happens.

The real problem is that it can provide cover for bogus officials.

[Jdsk]

General practice records are fully computerised across the NHS in all of the UK. (And have been for some time. And were genuinely world-leading.)

But there are many others who need to know your wishes, which leads to letters in special bottles in 'frigs etc.

If that means that the results discussions like I've referred to are available to medics when push comes to shove, then that can only be a good thing.

Those records are not necessarily shared with any other provider. That varies around the country.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

General practice records are fully computerised across the NHS in all of the UK. (And have been for some time. And were genuinely world-leading.)

But there are many others who need to know your wishes, which leads to letters in special bottles in 'frigs etc.

If that means that the results discussions like I've referred to are available to medics when push comes to shove, then that can only be a good thing.

Those records are not necessarily shared with any other provider. That varies around the country.

Jonathan

My experience is NHS "sharing" of data is "patchy". I had an MRI scan 4 weeks ago now (at an NHS hospital) and 2 consultants and my GP still can't find out the results from the scans and don't seem to have access to those scans (despite one having some special expensive MRI display station!). That said I have a suspicion they did the wrong scans as I had to have a blood test (not related to my condition) before the scans but they didn't do "contrast" scans (so either the blood test was a waste of time or the MRI's were wrong) but 4 weeks later I've not heard anything.

Ian

[Jdsk]

Private Message sent.

Jonathan

[Vitara]

Resuscitation and Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) is something that potentially could affects all of us & is worth being properly informed about.

I would suggest regarding anything printed in the Daily Mail as factual and informative is naïve in the extreme.

There are plenty of easily understood resources available on the subject.
e.g. https://www.which.co.uk/later-life-care ... gLjUfD_BwE

[mercalia]

Resuscitation and Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) is something that potentially could affects all of us & is worth being properly informed about.

I would suggest regarding anything printed in the Daily Mail as factual and informative is naïve in the extreme.

There are plenty of easily understood resources available on the subject.
e.g. https://www.which.co.uk/later-life-care ... gLjUfD_BwE

so the cases quoted are made up or fabricated? you are letting your prejudices get the better of you

[Cyril Haearn]

I bet there are some true stories in the dm

[thirdcrank]

I recently had a (socially distanced) chat with a near-neighbour in his 70s like me who'd had several days unconscious in hospital earlier in the year ie before his first jab. I'd not realised it had happened, even though he was taken to hospital by an emergency ambulance.

Early in his stay and obviously while he was still conscious he was offered the last rites and they unsuccessfully tried to persuade him to agree to DNR, all of which had made him realise the gravity of his situation. When he regained consciousness, the doctor told him they'd given him "Trumps medicine" ie the same stuff that had been given to him. We had a laugh about bleach, the fact that he hadn't turned orange and he was still largely bald.