Who's had the vaccine?

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Paulatic
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Paulatic »

Do you think he means the ‘patient access' app?
If it is I imagine it requires a huge roll out as our practice, for one, has never promoted it.
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mjr
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 8:46am "COVID-19: NHS app to be used as coronavirus passport for international travel, Grant Shapps confirms"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-nhs ... s-12289071

"It will be the NHS app that is used for people when they book appointments with the NHS and so on, to be able to show you've had a vaccine or that you've had testing,"


It isn't clear how much of the UK this covers.
Probably only England.

Why am I not surprised they're planning to use an existing app that I think isn't open source? Dom would be delirious with joy at the spyware opportunity.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Maybe someone can help me understand something.
The situation in India seems really terrible.
Daily we are shown pictures of funeral pyres and get reports of the anguish being suffered.
The virus is clearly rampant in a hugely densely populated country.

Today it was reported (BBC) that India has suffered 200,000 deaths.
This is a total figure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news


The UK has suffered around 137,000 deaths.
This is also a total figure.

But India has a population of 1.3 Billion odd and the UK has a population of 66 million odd.

If my maths are correct (and they are very dodgy when dealing with big numbers) then India would had a death rate of 20 million (odd) when compared to the UK.

Surely I have made an error somewhere?
markjohnobrien
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by markjohnobrien »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 9:26am Maybe someone can help me understand something.
The situation in India seems really terrible.
Daily we are shown pictures of funeral pyres and get reports of the anguish being suffered.
The virus is clearly rampant in a hugely densely populated country.

Today it was reported (BBC) that India has suffered 200,000 deaths.
This is a total figure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news


The UK has suffered around 137,000 deaths.
This is also a total figure.

But India has a population of 1.3 Billion odd and the UK has a population of 66 million odd.

If my maths are correct (and they are very dodgy when dealing with big numbers) then India would had a death rate of 20 million (odd) when compared to the UK.

Surely I have made an error somewhere?
All of the reputable newspapers and other sources (both in India and abroad) agree there has been massive undercounting of Covid cases and deaths in India: most people die at home and never see a hospital and the systems are not in place (as in many second or third world countries) to accurately collate this information.

The amount of unofficial funeral pyres and even the data from Delhi’s main crematorium vastly outnumbers the official figures.

As a moderate estimate, the death figure should be in the range of 2-5 times bigger (reading in the Times yesterday) and could be much, much, bigger.

Britain, on the other hand, is scrupulous in counting deaths (even if criteria for death differs in different countries).
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markjohnobrien
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by markjohnobrien »

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/non ... 021-04-19/

Just one article which gives an overview on undercounting.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

markjohnobrien wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 9:54am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 9:26am Maybe someone can help me understand something.
The situation in India seems really terrible.
Daily we are shown pictures of funeral pyres and get reports of the anguish being suffered.
The virus is clearly rampant in a hugely densely populated country.

Today it was reported (BBC) that India has suffered 200,000 deaths.
This is a total figure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news


The UK has suffered around 137,000 deaths.
This is also a total figure.

But India has a population of 1.3 Billion odd and the UK has a population of 66 million odd.

If my maths are correct (and they are very dodgy when dealing with big numbers) then India would had a death rate of 20 million (odd) when compared to the UK.

Surely I have made an error somewhere?
All of the reputable newspapers and other sources (both in India and abroad) agree there has been massive undercounting of Covid cases and deaths in India: most people die at home and never see a hospital and the systems are not in place (as in many second or third world countries) to accurately collate this information.

The amount of unofficial funeral pyres and even the data from Delhi’s main crematorium vastly outnumbers the official figures.

As a moderate estimate, the death figure should be in the range of 2-5 times bigger (reading in the Times yesterday) and could be much, much, bigger.

Britain, on the other hand, is scrupulous in counting deaths (even if criteria for death differs in different countries).
Indeed. And I accept the (likely) underreporting.
But taking your "5 times more" than the official figures as vaguely realistic that would give 1 million deaths.


My above is 20 times that.
markjohnobrien
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by markjohnobrien »

Agree - it could be more but due to the vagaries of data collection in India, we may never know. The best possible totals, unfortunately, would be estimates.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 8:46am "COVID-19: NHS app to be used as coronavirus passport for international travel, Grant Shapps confirms"
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-nhs ... s-12289071

"It will be the NHS app that is used for people when they book appointments with the NHS and so on, to be able to show you've had a vaccine or that you've had testing,"


It isn't clear how much of the UK this covers.

Jonathan

Never used an NHS app... I do have an old phone that I could put it on; no SIM card, but then neither does my real passport.

Of course the fact that you don't need to use the NHS app for booking, or for evidence of vaccination (at least not when you turn up for jab2), means that the whole sentence is completely meaningless.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

markjohnobrien wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:06am Agree - it could be more but due to the vagaries of data collection in India, we may never know. The best possible totals, unfortunately, would be estimates.
You agree that the Uk has fared THAT much worse than India?
As a sign of the failure of the UK Govt, it has shaken me to the core.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 28 Apr 2021, 10:58am, edited 2 times in total.
Psamathe
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Psamathe »

Paulatic wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 9:00am Do you think he means the ‘patient access' app?
If it is I imagine it requires a huge roll out as our practice, for one, has never promoted it.
I thought there are two systems, NHS App and Patient Access
NHS App allows you to: check your symptoms and get instant advice, book, check or cancel appointments with a GP, nurse or other healthcare professional, order repeat prescriptions and view previous medications and allergies

Whereas Patient Access depends on what "level" you are registered under. This gives you pretty much the same but under Level 2 you get far more extensive access to your medical records from your GP practice. I don't know how local registration constraints are but for Patient Access Level 1 my own GP practice requires you go to the practice reception with a photo ID (passport, drivers license, etc.) and sign something. You then have to create an account and login to the system and you can do stuff and only then can you again attend the practice reception but with 2 photo IDs and read through a form in front of staff and again sign that you accept the risks, etc. (risks such as you seeing a horrendous consultant letter at 19:00 on Fri and spend the weekend sweating 'cos of some long medical words Google can't explain before you can talk to your GP about what it really means.

With all the hassle registering for Patient Access I can't see that being viable mechanism. Also, I'm registered for Patient Access Level 2 but have not bothered to load the app and have only used the web interface.

That said, the NHS App seems a bit of a waste of space for most people who rarely see their GP and are not on medication (e.g. main use I can see is making routine appointments and repeat prescriptions).

Ian
LollyKat
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by LollyKat »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:02am If my maths are correct (and they are very dodgy when dealing with big numbers) then India would had a death rate of 20 million (odd) when compared to the UK
....
Indeed. And I accept the (likely) underreporting.
But taking your "5 times more" than the official figures as vaguely realistic that would give 1 million deaths.

My above is 20 times that.
Yes, but the figures for the UK are the total for over a year; India's infection rate only really took off a few weeks ago, but is growing exponentially along with deaths. If things don't improve there soon, the number of deaths could be unimaginable. Jdsk will be able to cite sources and be more specific.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

LollyKat wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:55am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:02am If my maths are correct (and they are very dodgy when dealing with big numbers) then India would had a death rate of 20 million (odd) when compared to the UK
....
Indeed. And I accept the (likely) underreporting.
But taking your "5 times more" than the official figures as vaguely realistic that would give 1 million deaths.

My above is 20 times that.
Yes, but the figures for the UK are the total for over a year; India's infection rate only really took off a few weeks ago, but is growing exponentially along with deaths. If things don't improve there soon, the number of deaths could be unimaginable. Jdsk will be able to cite sources and be more specific.
I understand that India is at something of a different point. (And has a new variant.)

The figures are both absolute totals though.
It must be said that the beginning of the outbreak in India, that is first cases, more or less coincided with those of the UK.

It is the size of the discrepancy that shocks me.
Compared to the UK, India is faring extremely well, so far.
Psamathe
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Psamathe »

When I 1st read the report quoted below I thought I was on a spoof site. Then when I realised it was not a spoof, nor 1 April I thought I'd got the negatives wrong and mis-read. But no. Beggars belief
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/miami-covid-vaccine-teachers-school-b1838660.html wrote: Miami school says it won’t employ teachers who are vaccinated against Covid
A private school in Miami has said it will not employ vaccinated teachers, arguing against all evidence that they pose health risks to children.

Centner Academy, which has campuses in the Design District and Edgewater, informed parents of its policy for teachers and staff on Monday by email.

In a video message, one of the school’s founders, Leila Centner, told employees that if they chose to get a shot, “they would have to stay away from students.”

In her message to the school staff and teachers, she claimed: “Reports have surfaced recently of non-vaccinated people being negatively impacted by interacting with people who have been vaccinated.”

She added: “Even among our own population, we have at least three women with menstrual cycles impacted after having spent time with a vaccinated person.” Both these claims have been discounted by the CDC.
...
Ian
markjohnobrien
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by markjohnobrien »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:09am
markjohnobrien wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:06am Agree - it could be more but due to the vagaries of data collection in India, we may never know. The best possible totals, unfortunately, would be estimates.
You agree that the Uk has fared THAT much worse than India?
As a sign of the failure of the UK Govt, it has shaken me to the core.
I don’t agree that Britain has done that much worse than India - clearly, we didn’t run out of oxygen, people aren’t dying on the streets here, vast amounts of people aren’t dying in the countryside or at home, with cause of death not accurately recorded here and COVID deaths hidden.

Unfortunately, and I have already stated, we are comparing apples and pears in terms of data and data collection as:

Britain records data scrupulously and is highly accurate compared to most of the world.

India doesn’t record data accurately. It doesn’t have the infrastructure we do. While it is a powerful country, elements of its infrastructure are third world.

Hence, trying to say we have done worse than India on dubious Indian data sources, is unhelpful.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

markjohnobrien wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 11:15am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:09am
markjohnobrien wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 10:06am Agree - it could be more but due to the vagaries of data collection in India, we may never know. The best possible totals, unfortunately, would be estimates.
You agree that the Uk has fared THAT much worse than India?
As a sign of the failure of the UK Govt, it has shaken me to the core.
I don’t agree that Britain has done that much worse than India - clearly, we didn’t run out of oxygen, people aren’t dying on the streets here, vast amounts of people aren’t dying in the countryside or at home, with cause of death not accurately recorded here and COVID deaths hidden.

Unfortunately, and I have already stated, we are comparing apples and pears in terms of data and data collection as:

Britain records data scrupulously and is highly accurate compared to most of the world.

India doesn’t record data accurately. It doesn’t have the infrastructure we do. While it is a powerful country, elements of its infrastructure are third world.

Hence, trying to say we have done worse than India on dubious Indian data sources, is unhelpful.
Well in spite of us " not running out of oxygen" I don't see that anyone could say, based on thise figures, that we have not done worse.
At present.

To pin such a massive discrepancy onto "dubious" Indian stats seems one sided. (To me)
We here in the UK also ammended criteria at one point ( I seem to remember) and reduced recorded cases.
We are not talking about double or treble discrepancies here.
This is a twenty fold or more.

Truth is never "unhelpful".

What is truth is open to debate and perception of course.
I would not write "unhelpful" about your opinion, I merely look at the facts as presented to me.
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