Who's had the vaccine?

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mikeymo
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by mikeymo »

Psamathe wrote:The problem is it's a few EU politicians that are messing up...


But is it? Or is it maybe the structures, procedures, habits and culture of the EU itself? That's a genuine question. There are 27 countries, at various stages of economic, political and social development, of very different sizes. And these 27 are supposed to have a common approach, that they all agree on. This might work in the slow development of, let's say, a trade agreement. Or a standard for electrical safety of consumer products. Or similar. But in the middle of a pandemic, with the exponential growth curves that involves? The UK government was criticised for locking down too late in March 2020. The "too late" is measured in days, or maybe a week:

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-epidemiologis-idUSL8N2DN58X

But look here, at the time the EU lost, in various ways.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

For some time it looked like there was some sort of ugly hybrid of vaccine procurement in the EU, a group of countries doing their own thing, and an EU process. A mess, in other words. It seems they also lost time negotiating lower prices, and, by the looks of things, arguing about indemnity.

As others have pointed out, drugs companies are now far more likely to treat the EU with caution. Hence Novavax's cautious approach here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-novavax-exclusi-idUSKBN2BH2GY

They've seen AstraZeneca's name dragged through the mud because they haven't got the vaccine out fast enough. What would you do as the CEO of Novavax? I know I wouldn't be signing any deal until I was 100% sure I could deliver. And which would be better for the citizens of the EU? 50% soon, or 100% later?

As it is, the public behaviour of some EU politicians and bureaucrats now means the drug companies may well drive harder bargains, with higher prices and better guarantees of indemnity. Well I would, the EU is starting to look like a risky place to do business, for a drugs company.

Edit: as usual, I have to state that I both voted and campaigned for Remain.
Last edited by mikeymo on 27 Mar 2021, 1:03am, edited 1 time in total.
mikeymo
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by mikeymo »

661-Pete wrote:OK it may be that Britain has fared better than its neighbours in terms of vaccine delivery. Is that a situation you relish? Do you have no sympathy for people in mainland Europe who are less fortunate than ourselves? Like the friend of ours in France, in his 80s and not in the best of health, still awaiting his first jab?


So, have you taken the time to consider whether your implication, that I don't care about other people, is fair? Considering that you don't know me at all. Maybe I should run to the mods and complain about your "personal attack". The mods are very keen that "personal attacks" don't happen.
Phileas
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Location: Bristol

Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Phileas »

Back on topic, I had my first dose of the “Oxford” vaccine this morning.
I’m feeling a bit crap at the moment, which I was hoping would happen so I know it’s doing something. :D
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

kwackers wrote:Plus I'm not sure we would have had to join the procurement system, my quick google showed no answers.


There was never any compulsion to join the procurement system - this is the EU, not a dictatorship.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Psamathe »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
kwackers wrote:Plus I'm not sure we would have had to join the procurement system, my quick google showed no answers.


There was never any compulsion to join the procurement system - this is the EU, not a dictatorship.

That is what I remember being reported when it was all starting. Also I remember it being reported that countries could join the scheme and also do their own thing as well (but they''d not get such good terms/price/indemnity/etc. under their private deals, argument being the EU scheme would get them everything they could want under best terms possible). Can't quote sources on that though (and too long ago for me to Google it).

Ian
kwackers
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by kwackers »

Phileas wrote:Back on topic, I had my first dose of the “Oxford” vaccine this morning.
I’m feeling a bit crap at the moment, which I was hoping would happen so I know it’s doing something. :D

If it's going to get you it'll get you tonight.
Pretty much everyone I know that had the 'Oxford' jab came down with shivers and full on man-flu - for a few hours at least.
KTHSullivan
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Location: Wind Swept Lincolnshire

Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by KTHSullivan »

kwackers wrote:
Phileas wrote:Back on topic, I had my first dose of the “Oxford” vaccine this morning.
I’m feeling a bit crap at the moment, which I was hoping would happen so I know it’s doing something. :D

If it's going to get you it'll get you tonight.
Pretty much everyone I know that had the 'Oxford' jab came down with shivers and full on man-flu - for a few hours at least.


I was just knackered for a couple of days and slept for England.
Just remember, when you’re over the hill, you begin to pick up speed. :lol:
geocycle
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by geocycle »

I feel relieved to know we are getting a good British vaccine bottled in...... Barnard Castle! No truth in the rumour of Cummins and Co being the beneficiary.
slowster
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by slowster »

Psamathe wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
kwackers wrote:Plus I'm not sure we would have had to join the procurement system, my quick google showed no answers.


There was never any compulsion to join the procurement system - this is the EU, not a dictatorship.

That is what I remember being reported when it was all starting. Also I remember it being reported that countries could join the scheme and also do their own thing as well (but they''d not get such good terms/price/indemnity/etc. under their private deals, argument being the EU scheme would get them everything they could want under best terms possible). Can't quote sources on that though (and too long ago for me to Google it).

If the UK had still been a member of the EU, I think one of two scenarios would probably have been likely. Either it would have come under great pressure from the rest of the EU to join the EU procurement programme, as indicated by the pressure on Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands which resulted in them abandoning their procurement scheme and handing over negotiations to the EU. Or the refusal of the UK to join an EU procurement programme might have caused those four countries likewise to have decided differently and continue with their own negotiations.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

Ironically, if the UK had still been a member of the EU and the same circumstances applied as regards higher/faster vaccination levels in the UK, the EU would not be in a position to block exports from Pfizer and AZ factories in Europe to the UK, because those powers only apply to exports out of the EU.

A condition of the EU procurement scheme was that members could not also make side deals for extra vaccines from manufacturers who were also supplying the EU scheme. Germany broke that condition, but the Commission took no action.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-coronavirus-vaccine-side-deal-at-odds-with-legally-binding-eu-pact/
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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

Well it's a sad day in R-S-R land and I'm saddened to report that we've done a U-turn and had our first dose of the AZ vaccine today.
Why?
For totally selfish reasons.
Despite what the Govt(s) say this vaccine is compulsory.It's compulsory through the back door.They haven't officially stated it is but it's becoming pretty obvious that life will be made difficult,at least in the shorter term,for those who don't have it.There's already talk of 'Covid-Passports' etc and the way it's going I believe it will get worse.The vaccine will become a badge in the way that mask wearing is.
No mask-No entry.
No Vaccine-No entry.
I still believe it's unnecessary for the vast majority of us and my stance is the same as it has been since day one.
I've been labelled an anti-vaxxer on this Forum and as I've said many times I'm not but I am now wondering what a (wrongly presumed) anti-vaxxer who has the vaccine is called :?

Do your worst,I'm a big boy and can take it.
kwackers
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by kwackers »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:Do your worst,I'm a big boy and can take it.

If you believe all that then you shouldn't have had it.
I wouldn't have done. I'm more than happy to cut my nose off to spite my face.
(Plus it's not like you couldn't have simply had it later on when your supposed "compulsion" becomes an actual thing).
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6.5_lives_left
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by 6.5_lives_left »

I had my first dose of Oxford AZ on the 28 March midday.

I arrived by bike an hour early to scope out the place, but the volunteers manning the gates said no need to wait, they will process you right away. Took 15 to 20 minutes. I was released straight away. Took the long route home and fitted in a visit to the supermarket to get the groceries too. I felt fine on the journey home.

I felt cold and shivering when I went to bed. Today (following day) I was still feeling rough and I spent part of the day in bed. Not much appetite.

My younger brother had his first dose before me on the 19 March. He had similar symptoms to me. I drove him to the vaccination centre which was at Wycombe Wanders football ground. There was a really noticeable traffic flow which indicates that they were vaccinating a lot of people that day.

Edit: 2 days after the Injection and I am back to my normal self
Last edited by 6.5_lives_left on 30 Mar 2021, 9:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kylecycler
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by kylecycler »

6.5_lives_left wrote:I had my first dose of Oxford AZ on the 28 March midday.

I arrived by bike an hour early to scope out the place, but the volunteers manning the gates said no need to wait, they will process you right away. Took 15 to 20 minutes. I was released straight away. Took the long route home and fitted in a visit to the supermarket to get the groceries too. I felt fine on the journey home.

I felt cold and shivering when I went to bed. Today (following day) I was still feeling rough and I spent part of the day in bed. Not much appetite.

It's funny but I followed almost exactly the same procedure last Sunday (the 21st) - cycled there, left time for a puncture on the way but didn't get one (haven't had one for over a year, though, touch wood!), hung around the village where the vaccination centre was for a while then went in, still early, and was told by the volunteer outside that I'd get taken right away.

The vaccination was just the slightest prick in my arm and didn't seem to take long enough for the syringe to be emptied but that was it, I was done. Cycled home but then kept on going to the supermarket - figured I might as well stock up since I was feeling ok and might not be for the next couple of days.

No side effects at all, though, just slight lingering pain where the needle went in but not much more than if someone had stuck a pin in my arm, but it just seems to be the luck of the draw as to how we react.

I'm certainly one of the more risk-averse characters you could ever meet, but there may or may not be risks in taking the vaccine and may or may not be risks in not taking it, so I reckon you could toss a coin, just about. On balance I figured it would be better to take it but I don't think any of us can be sure which is best.

Is everyone in the UK getting the Oxford Astra-Zeneca vaccine (the one you and I got) or are there regional variations, or whatever?
Jdsk
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by Jdsk »

kylecycler wrote:I'm certainly one of the more risk-averse characters you could ever meet, but there may or may not be risks in taking the vaccine and may or may not be risks in not taking it, so I reckon you could toss a coin, just about. On balance I figured it would be better to take it but I don't think any of us can be sure which is best.

It's nowhere near evens for serious illness or death. You'd have to use a very strange coin.

kylecycler wrote:Is everyone in the UK getting the Oxford Astra-Zeneca vaccine (the one you and I got) or are there regional variations, or whatever?

So far it's AstraZeneca and Pfizer. I don't know of any deliberate decisions on different regional allocation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Jonathan
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philg
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Post by philg »

AstraZeneca vaccine - was it really worth it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364

In other news
Apparently HMG have signed GSK to bottle the 60M Novavax vials instead of the planned Germany in order to 'safeguard' UK supplies.
The processing has become available as it was earmarked for the French Sanofi vaccine, which has yet to prove effective

Got to (guiltily) love the irony
The weekend comes, my cycle hums
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