Who's had the vaccine?

[mikeymo]

Well it's a sad day in R-S-R land and I'm saddened to report that we've done a U-turn and had our first dose of the AZ vaccine today.
Why?
For totally selfish reasons.
Despite what the Govt(s) say this vaccine is compulsory.It's compulsory through the back door.They haven't officially stated it is but it's becoming pretty obvious that life will be made difficult,at least in the shorter term,for those who don't have it.There's already talk of 'Covid-Passports' etc and the way it's going I believe it will get worse.The vaccine will become a badge in the way that mask wearing is.
No mask-No entry.
No Vaccine-No entry.
I still believe it's unnecessary for the vast majority of us and my stance is the same as it has been since day one.
I've been labelled an anti-vaxxer on this Forum and as I've said many times I'm not but I am now wondering what a (wrongly presumed) anti-vaxxer who has the vaccine is called

Do your worst,I'm a big boy and can take it.

Excellent news, that's a very good sign. It tells us just how weak the conviction of vaccine resisters is. Hopefully the rest will do the same as you, and cave in at the merest hint of some inconvenient restriction on their activities. That would just leave us with a rump of hardcore anti-vaxxers and those who are unable to have the vaccine.

The number of determined anti-vaxxers might be small enough that they could perhaps be housed in secure locations somewhere, well away from rational citizens. There are probably some uninhabited islands around the Scottish coast they could be left on, and food parcels dropped once in a while. Until they'd clubbed each other to death, that is.

EDIT. So I'll have to edit this post then, as the mods deletion of Ride-Sleep-Repeat's response, and my response to the response has now lost a point.

I was careful not to accuse R-S-R of being an "anti-vaxxer", as he/she seems unhappy with being accused of being one. I chose (invented?) the term "vaccine resister" instead. I'm not sure there's a realistic difference, but at least I attempted some sort of distinction.

[ANTONISH]

And still might be reading the 'scientific press' - hence the necessity (must it keep being spelt out?) of widespread vaccinations to reduce transmission and slow the mutations, or if necessary make isolating future nasty strains easier.

And of behaviour that reduces transmission.

I'm very concerned about over-relaxation of behaviour. Ministers' statements haven't been as disastrous as last year but could be enormously better.

Jonathan

Yes of course you are right.
It appears that an added bonus of lockdown has been the great reduction in seasonal flu.
This alone may make it worth continuing some of the protective measures - mask wearing - distancing etc at least during the flu season.

[Jdsk]

My stance is the same as it was in day one.If you get it and die then it's your time.It's the same as any virus.If it kills you then it was your time.Natural selection.

Is it always wrong to prolong life with simple cheap safe interventions? Or do you reserve that approach to vaccines in general? Or only to these vaccines?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1376818789434687490

Figures for other countries of the UK in the same place.

Jonathan

[mikeymo]

Mods busy at censorship again.

Ride-sleep-repeat would be justified feeling that his/her right to reply had been silenced. I read his/her response to three of us (including me), which has now disappeared. I think he/she is foolish, and wrong, but there was no abuse. Oh, and my response to the response has gone too. Not that I really care that much, but a pretty sure way of confirming people in their opinions is not allowing them to express them.

I never realised cyclists were such a sensitive bunch who need such careful protection.

[pwa]

My stance is the same as it was in day one.If you get it and die then it's your time.It's the same as any virus.If it kills you then it was your time.Natural selection.

Is it always wrong to prolong life with simple cheap safe interventions? Or do you reserve that approach to vaccines in general? Or only to these vaccines?

Thanks

Jonathan

It is a rejection of the use of science to prolong life beyond limits dictated by disease. It sounds like religion at play.

[mikeymo]

In response to the original question, I have, about a month ago.

No side effects whatsoever. Not even a sore arm. AstraZeneca.

Though I cycled there, and on the way back I dropped the chain. Coincidence? I think not. It's the oil companies, they've put something in the vaccine to discourage us from cycling.

[Psamathe]

I see that following Canada the other day, Germany has now restricted the AstraZenica vaccine

Canada suspends use of AstraZeneca Covid vaccine for those under 55

Germany to restrict AstraZeneca use in under-60s amid blood clot fear

Ian

[Ride-sleep-repeat]

Mods busy at censorship again.
Ride-sleep-repeat would be justified feeling that his/her right to reply had been silenced. I read his/her response to three of us (including me), which has now disappeared. I think he/she is foolish, and wrong, but there was no abuse. Oh, and my response to the response has gone too. Not that I really care that much, but a pretty sure way of confirming people in their opinions is not allowing them to express them.
I never realised cyclists were such a sensitive bunch who need such careful protection.

I'm at a loss as to why all mentioned have been deleted. For what it's worth I saw no abuse merely opinion. Different opinions are there to be discussed or argued about.Is that not what the Teashop is for?

My stance is the same as it was in day one.If you get it and die then it's your time.It's the same as any virus.If it kills you then it was your time.Natural selection.

Is it always wrong to prolong life with simple cheap safe interventions? Or do you reserve that approach to vaccines in general? Or only to these vaccines?
Thanks
Jonathan

Not vaccines in general but certainly certain vaccines.Some are good and eradicate the thing they are targeted at.Some don't and it's an exercise in futility.Take the Flu jab.It's been around decades and folk still die of Flu or complications related to it.The Flu mutates constantly.This virus is showing signs of doing the same thing.It's highly possible that a completely new mutation of C-19 could return in the near future rendering all known vaccines useless.What then?Keep vaccinating as we do with the Flu?We should have just let this run it's course.Those weak and vulnerable would die(as many have) for everyone else life goes on.
Maybe some lives are not meant to be 'prolonged'?Maybe old Ma nature is reminding us who's actually in charge?I don't know but I do think that the tiny fraction of the Worlds population taken by this virus does not warrant the time,money and response that it has had these last 12 or so months.

[mikeymo]

Mods busy at censorship again.
Ride-sleep-repeat would be justified feeling that his/her right to reply had been silenced. I read his/her response to three of us (including me), which has now disappeared. I think he/she is foolish, and wrong, but there was no abuse. Oh, and my response to the response has gone too. Not that I really care that much, but a pretty sure way of confirming people in their opinions is not allowing them to express them.
I never realised cyclists were such a sensitive bunch who need such careful protection.

I'm at a loss as to why all mentioned have been deleted. For what it's worth I saw no abuse merely opinion. Different opinions are there to be discussed or argued about.Is that not what the Teashop is for?

Apparently not.

[kwackers]

Not vaccines in general but certainly certain vaccines.Some are good and eradicate the thing they are targeted at.Some don't and it's an exercise in futility.Take the Flu jab.It's been around decades and folk still die of Flu or complications related to it.The Flu mutates constantly.This virus is showing signs of doing the same thing.It's highly possible that a completely new mutation of C-19 could return in the near future rendering all known vaccines useless.What then?Keep vaccinating as we do with the Flu?We should have just let this run it's course.Those weak and vulnerable would die(as many have) for everyone else life goes on.
Maybe some lives are not meant to be 'prolonged'?Maybe old Ma nature is reminding us who's actually in charge?I don't know but I do think that the tiny fraction of the Worlds population taken by this virus does not warrant the time,money and response that it has had these last 12 or so months.

Flu doesn't mutate because it's dodging vaccines, it mutates because that's what it does.
The flu jab saves lives, they may be predominantly amongst the weak and vulnerable but who are we to say they don't deserve to be protected?

At the end of the day C19 is only really a thing because the world handled it poorly. We could have strangled it at birth like the Chinese did but we allowed it to escape into the general population and once there it's next to impossible to eradicate.
The "tiny fraction" is tiny because we were able to deal with it at the rate it presented. Allowed to run wild the numbers would have been far greater without a doubt merely because we lacked the capacity to handle them.
It wouldn't take too many pictures of overcrowded hospitals, people dying in corridors etc to swing public opinion pretty hard (to some extent pictures of such things in Italy did exactly that).

In some ways the relative success of what we did gives us (you?) the ability to question the wisdom of it.

[ANTONISH]

Take the Flu jab.It's been around decades and folk still die of Flu or complications related to it.The Flu mutates constantly.

I do take the flu jab every year.
Of course "folk still die" but probably more would die(before their time) without the flu vaccine.
All vaccines are imperfect and sometimes the flu vaccine is a poor match to the current strain and sometimes it's a very good match.

You appear not to believe in medical intervention for the old and vulnerable - basically let them die - or use extensive NHS resources in palliative care.

That isn't the ethos of the NHS and as we have seen the emergency wards have been extremely stressed.

[Ride-sleep-repeat]

The "tiny fraction" is tiny because we were able to deal with it at the rate it presented. Allowed to run wild the numbers would have been far greater without a doubt merely because we lacked the capacity to handle them.
In some ways the relative success of what we did gives us (you?) the ability to question the wisdom of it.

How greater would it have been though?
3M deaths from a World population of 7.6B.Would there have been that much more death?
Do you think it would have got to 100M?I don't.Would 100M be acceptable?I think so.Still hardly a dent in the total population of an over populated Planet.As I've mentioned the numbers just don't add up.

You appear not to believe in medical intervention for the old and vulnerable - basically let them die - or use extensive NHS resources in palliative care.

Giving the vaccine to a 95 year old before a 35 year old makes absolutely no sense to me so in that respect you are correct. Prolonging the life of (some) old and vulnerable people is pointless.
We seem to place too much emphasis on 'flogging a dead horse' as a species.We keep humans alive in circumstances where we would be prosecuted if it were an animal.We need to take a step back and let nature take it's course.If that means letting someone go then so be it.

[mikeymo]

As I've mentioned the numbers just don't add up.

You are absolutely correct. The numbers don't "add up". The numbers actually multiply. Here's an explanation:

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/exponential-growth-what-it-is-why-it-matters-and-how-to-spot-it/

[Ride-sleep-repeat]

As I've mentioned the numbers just don't add up.

You are absolutely correct. The numbers don't "add up". The numbers actually multiply. Here's an explanation:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/exponential-growth-what-it-is-why-it-matters-and-how-to-spot-it/

I'm quite sure you know what I mean
On another note.
Expotentially-That is definitely the buzz word for 2020 isn't it.Most of the people using it since hearing it on the news probably have no idea what it means but it makes them sound good