Who's had the vaccine?

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 30 Dec 2020, 10:26am

Just shows how little anyone knows
Maybe control groups be dealt with at intervals of three days, three weeks, three months
In about 90 years one might have reliable data :?
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Jdsk
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 10:28am

ossie wrote:
pwa wrote:Blair (remember him?) is saying a single dose gives 90% immunity and that we should be giving that single dose to as many vulnerable and care / health sector people as possible before thinking about second doses. That does make some sense.


It appears they are going to do exactly what Blair suggested. Yet the amount of grief he got on here and other social media :wink:

The government said the vaccine rollout will change slightly to focus on giving as many at-risk people as possible the initial vaccine dose.

People receiving the Oxford vaccine or the one from Pfizer/BioNTech, which is also being rolled out, will now receive their first dose of the vaccine followed by a second dose up to 12 weeks later.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxf ... k-12155958

The approval is great news.

I'm looking forward to seeing the regime. It will be an interesting bit of regulation if it is different from what was used in the submitted studies. My guess is they will go for a longer gap but with extra surveillance so that the new regime is run as a new study.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 10:32am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Just shows how little anyone knows
Maybe control groups be dealt with at intervals of three days, three weeks, three months
In about 90 years one might have reliable data

The knowledge at the start of the vaccine development and what has been added with the studies is little short of astounding, and the timescale of the delivery of a safe effective vaccine totally unprecedented

We have reliable data now. We'll have a lot more soon.

What does "control groups be dealt with at intervals of three days" mean? What should be measured then?

Thanks

Jonathan

Psamathe
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Psamathe » 30 Dec 2020, 10:38am

Jdsk wrote:
ossie wrote:
pwa wrote:Blair (remember him?) is saying a single dose gives 90% immunity and that we should be giving that single dose to as many vulnerable and care / health sector people as possible before thinking about second doses. That does make some sense.


It appears they are going to do exactly what Blair suggested. Yet the amount of grief he got on here and other social media :wink:

The government said the vaccine rollout will change slightly to focus on giving as many at-risk people as possible the initial vaccine dose.

People receiving the Oxford vaccine or the one from Pfizer/BioNTech, which is also being rolled out, will now receive their first dose of the vaccine followed by a second dose up to 12 weeks later.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxf ... k-12155958

The approval is great news.
....

My worry is that the trial data still show 62% and with the more infectious strain even with 100% vaccination take-up that is far from enough for herd immunity. Government are selling this as "'way out' of pandemic" (Hancock, today). And once vaccinated with the 62% vaccine you are unlikely to be re-vaccinated with e.g. 90+% vaccine later.

(I appreciate that Oxford vaccine trials are still underway due to their dosage error in a small number of recipients).

Ian

Phileas
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Phileas » 30 Dec 2020, 11:06am

Psamathe wrote:My worry is that the trial data still show 62% and with the more infectious strain even with 100% vaccination take-up that is far from enough for herd immunity. Government are selling this as "'way out' of pandemic" (Hancock, today). And once vaccinated with the 62% vaccine you are unlikely to be re-vaccinated with e.g. 90+% vaccine later.

But the 62% effectiveness (AIUI) refers to preventing people developing COVID-19, not preventing infection or preventing transmission. The most important thing is to prevent people getting seriously ill and nobody vaccinated in the trials for the two approved vaccines got seriously ill.

Herd immunity is another thing altogether - we don’t yet know how effective any vaccine is in that regard.

Jdsk
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 11:48am

Jdsk wrote:
ossie wrote:
pwa wrote:Blair (remember him?) is saying a single dose gives 90% immunity and that we should be giving that single dose to as many vulnerable and care / health sector people as possible before thinking about second doses. That does make some sense.


It appears they are going to do exactly what Blair suggested. Yet the amount of grief he got on here and other social media :wink:

The government said the vaccine rollout will change slightly to focus on giving as many at-risk people as possible the initial vaccine dose.

People receiving the Oxford vaccine or the one from Pfizer/BioNTech, which is also being rolled out, will now receive their first dose of the vaccine followed by a second dose up to 12 weeks later.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxf ... k-12155958

The approval is great news.

I'm looking forward to seeing the regime. It will be an interesting bit of regulation if it is different from what was used in the submitted studies. My guess is they will go for a longer gap but with extra surveillance so that the new regime is run as a new study.

MHRA press release: "Oxford University/AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine approved"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/oxford-universityastrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-approved

includes:
"The Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine has been approved for use for people 18 years or older and consists of two doses, with the second dose administered 4-12 weeks after the first dose."

Jonathan

mikeymo
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby mikeymo » 30 Dec 2020, 12:06pm

Jdsk wrote:What does "control groups be dealt with at intervals of three days" mean?


Yes, I was wondering that.

mikeymo
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby mikeymo » 30 Dec 2020, 12:10pm

Jdsk wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing the regime. It will be an interesting bit of regulation if it is different from what was used in the submitted studies. My guess is they will go for a longer gap but with extra surveillance so that the new regime is run as a new study.

Jonathan


Does this "roll out" of the vaccine count as Phase IV of the same study?

https://www.nccn.org/patients/resources/clinical_trials/phases.aspx

Jdsk
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 12:17pm

I don't know what either the developers or the regulators are doing next.

But the bit that you just quoted was before I knew the approved interval between doses.

Jonathan

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 1 Jan 2021, 10:34pm

mikeymo wrote:
Jdsk wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing the regime. It will be an interesting bit of regulation if it is different from what was used in the submitted studies. My guess is they will go for a longer gap but with extra surveillance so that the new regime is run as a new study.

Jonathan


Does this "roll out" of the vaccine count as Phase IV of the same study?

https://www.nccn.org/patients/resources/clinical_trials/phases.aspx



It sort of does - there is no way to ethically test the effectiveness amongst the immunosuppressed. However there is no evidence that it will cause any harm - so there is a pretty good reasoning to give it anyway...
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pwa
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby pwa » 17 Jan 2021, 8:24pm

The Westminster Government is saying half of all over 80s in England have had their first jab, which is great. But in our S Wales village none have had it yet, and there are tales of people in a nearby town receiving their letter after the date of their appointment. The post is so slow at the moment that it can't keep up.

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simonineaston
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby simonineaston » 17 Jan 2021, 8:43pm

Let's get going...! My medical centre is about to start using the cricket ground facilities to stick it to us locals...
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Psamathe
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Psamathe » 17 Jan 2021, 8:44pm

pwa wrote:The Westminster Government is saying half of all over 80s in England have had their first jab, which is great. But in our S Wales village none have had it yet, and there are tales of people in a nearby town receiving their letter after the date of their appointment. The post is so slow at the moment that it can't keep up.

My Mum is getting very frustrated. She's in her 90s and canceled another operation as she regarded Covid vaccination as important (her surgeon said no vaccine week before and 3 weeks after surgery). Nobody in the town where she lives has even got an appointment yet. And she's now reading the Government have said centres can start (or maybe start soon) the over-70 group (which I assume she got from "Exclusive: Over-70s to get Covid vaccine invitations as jabs rollout ramped up "[i]With 90 per cent of over-80s now vaccinated in some areas, ministers prepare to give green light to next age categories" from https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/15/exclusive-five-million-over-70s-start-receiving-invitations/ 15 Jan 21 - but I can only read the headline for free and I wont pay the Telegraph).

Ian

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simonineaston
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby simonineaston » 17 Jan 2021, 8:47pm

Gov. stat.s here
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Who's had the vaccine?

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Jan 2021, 9:08pm

My dad is 76 and is having his Tuesday. That's South Cumbria. If the boondocks can get the jabs into their 75 to 80s group then surely the towns and cities down south with their provisions and resources should be ahead??? Is it down to local NHS organisation? Why are some areas ahead of others?