If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

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If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Poll runs till 31 Jan 2021, 4:35pm

Vote for the Trade Agreement
19
44%
Vote against the Trade Agreement
10
23%
Abstain
14
33%
 
Total votes: 43

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:06pm

pete75 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:"Economically we’ve been pulling away from the European Union for some time.

In 1990, 60 per cent of our exports went to Europe. Now it’s closer to 40 per cent."

How does trading with Europe conflict with trade with Asia? It's not one or the other.

Exactly. That statistic basically shows that the growth rate in the rest of the world was higher. It doesn't lessen the importance of trading with the EU.

It doesn't show "pulling away from the European Union"... to show that it's necessary to look at trade with the EU.

Putting up barriers with what was effectively our home market is extraordinarily stupid at any time. But to do it as we enter a massive economic downturn because of the outbreak is barely believable. Demand will be lower and protectionist tendencies higher for some time. And it's a lot harder to build new trading arrangements than to maintain those that already exist.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:08pm

al_yrpal wrote:"So the challenge now is for our political leaders, working with business and workers, to equip us to take advantage of the huge opportunities that await to be grasped in a post-Covid, post-Brexit world." - a view from Andrew Neil

Any suggestions of the economic sectors in which these opportunities are waiting to be grasped?

Jonathan

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al_yrpal
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Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby al_yrpal » 2 Jan 2021, 2:21pm

"How does trading with Europe conflict with trade with Asia?"

It doesnt, all he is saying is that Britain should concentrate its export efforts on dynamic growing markets not on schlerotic diminishing ones.

Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby pete75 » 2 Jan 2021, 2:22pm

mikeymo wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:So BoJo cannae be an UK citizen, cannae be PM...


I know you're a very literate man, so please forgive my ignorance, but this word "cannae", what does it mean?


Cannae was the location of one of Hannibal's greatest victories against the Romans.

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:22pm

al_yrpal wrote:Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Any suggestions of the economic sectors in which these opportunities are waiting to be grasped?

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:25pm

pete75 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:So BoJo cannae be an UK citizen, cannae be PM...

I know you're a very literate man, so please forgive my ignorance, but this word "cannae", what does it mean?

Cannae was the location of one of Hannibal's greatest victories against the Romans.

Is it known how many Celts were involved?

; - )

Jonathan

mikeymo
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Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jan 2021, 2:25pm

Jdsk wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Any suggestions of the economic sectors in which these opportunities are waiting to be grasped?

Thanks

Jonathan


Higher Education
Computer Science, particularly ML and QC
Biotech

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:33pm

I agree. The UK is excellent at higher education so lots of competitive advantage there.

But:

1 I don't think that we were held back by Membership.
2 Withdrawal from the EU programmes will hit the sector very hard. Examples including losing Erasmus+ and the European Medicines Agency.
3 The new restrictions on movement will be an enormous brake on new collaborations. They could wipe out several UK universities.
4 This Government has made some very worrying noises about higher education in England.

Jonathan

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby pete75 » 2 Jan 2021, 2:42pm

mikeymo wrote:
Jdsk wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Any suggestions of the economic sectors in which these opportunities are waiting to be grasped?

Thanks

Jonathan


Higher Education
Computer Science, particularly ML and QC
Biotech


So why aren't those sectors already grasping those opportunities?

mikeymo
Posts: 1885
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jan 2021, 2:43pm

Jdsk wrote:I agree. The UK is excellent at higher education so lots of competitive advantage there.

But:

1 I don't think that we were held back by Membership.
2 Withdrawal from the EU programmes will hit the sector very hard. Examples including losing Erasmus+ and the European Medicines Agency.
3 The new restrictions on movement will be an enormous brake on new collaborations. They could wipe out several UK universities.
4 This Government has made some very worrying noises about higher education in England.

Jonathan


Maybe. I'm not high enough up the academic greasy pole to know the finer details.

But just on the face of it, and from an entirely business point of view (which was the question after all), the EU students at the universities I teach at will all have paid UK level fees. Which the last time I asked were about £5000 less than for other overseas students. They will now (presumably?) be paying £5000 more than before (or at least, new students). Looking just now at some marking I've just finished, there's at least a couple of new staff salaries that could be funded just by the increase in fees.

UK universities don't seem to have any problem at all recruiting students from non EU countries, who already have the same restrictions on movement that are now going to apply to EU students.

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby pete75 » 2 Jan 2021, 2:43pm

al_yrpal wrote:"How does trading with Europe conflict with trade with Asia?"

It doesnt, all he is saying is that Britain should concentrate its export efforts on dynamic growing markets not on schlerotic diminishing ones.

Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Al


Britain needs to concentrate it's export efforts on whatever countries will buy it's goods not based on some prejudice against it's nearest neighbours.

BTW you've not commented my point on how "sclerotic" Germany manages to do more trade with the rest of the world than the UK, even with countries in the so called Anglosphere. How did "sclerotic" France manage to build a complete nationwide high speed rail network before Britain even started one. When we did build one it used rolling stock, signalling and train control system produced in France. How has "sclerotic" Holland managed to build a nationwide system of high quality cycle routes while Britain mainly paints lines at the side of main roads.

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:45pm

pete75 wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Any suggestions of the economic sectors in which these opportunities are waiting to be grasped?

Higher Education
Computer Science, particularly ML and QC
Biotech

So why aren't those sectors already grasping those opportunities?

We are. Lots of good examples. Lots of foreign earnings. Lots of contacts and lifelong soft power as a result.

But I think that there are many more opportunities out there.

I'd separate those opportunities from the effects of Leaving...

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:49pm

mikeymo wrote:But just on the face of it, and from an entirely business point of view (which was the question after all), the EU students at the universities I teach at will all have paid UK level fees. Which the last time I asked were about £5000 less than for other overseas students. They will now (presumably?) be paying £5000 more than before (or at least, new students). Looking just now at some marking I've just finished, there's at least a couple of new staff salaries that could be funded just by the increase in fees.

Unfortunately the elasticity of demand on fees is strongly against us. We've already lost many EU students from the postgraduate courses with those valuable uncapped fees. That is threatening the existence of some non-elite universities.

Jonathan

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jan 2021, 2:50pm

al_yrpal wrote:"How does trading with Europe conflict with trade with Asia?"

It doesnt, all he is saying is that Britain should concentrate its export efforts on dynamic growing markets not on schlerotic diminishing ones.

Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Al

But there's no reason why the UK couldn't do all of that whilst still an EU member :?
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Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: If you were an MP how would you vote on Brexit Trade deal?

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:57pm

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:"How does trading with Europe conflict with trade with Asia?"

It doesnt, all he is saying is that Britain should concentrate its export efforts on dynamic growing markets not on schlerotic diminishing ones.

Its up to us Brits to think positively and get out there and do the business in growing markets.

Al

Butnthere's no reason why the UK couldn't do that whilst still being an EU member

Exactly. But the new situation is much worse than neutral... we're going to deliberately shrink our home market. That makes building new export markets much much harder.

In addition to the education market the UK is very good in many areas of high technology, including computing which was also identified by mikeymo. But very few of the big projects are single company or single country any more, aerospace being an obvious example. I don't expect it will be long before we see that Leaving wasn't brilliant for Airbus...

Jonathan