New Year Honours Dec 2020

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Bonefishblues
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Bonefishblues » 3 Jan 2021, 9:31am

Tangled Metal wrote:He must be dodgy if he's being defended by Johnson!!!! :lol:

I have to say that does weigh heavily, doesn't it...

pete75
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby pete75 » 3 Jan 2021, 9:31am

Oldjohnw wrote:Hamilton is not a tax cheat because he is not breaking tax laws. But I don believe he should receive an honour because he doesn't contribute to British society via his taxes.


Your second sentence means no one on a very low income should ever receive any sort of honour either.


HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put Hamilton "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mot ... 80786.html

Oldjohnw
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Oldjohnw » 3 Jan 2021, 2:40pm

pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Hamilton is not a tax cheat because he is not breaking tax laws. But I don believe he should receive an honour because he doesn't contribute to British society via his taxes.


Other than being an out and out lie* your second sentence means no one on a very low income should ever receive any sort of honour either.


* HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put Hamilton "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mot ... 80786.html


It doesn't mean that at all. I was referring to someone wealthy choosing not to pay taxes then receiving honours. And I don't tell out and out lies. You have provided some evidence which contradicts what I wrote which I accept . I may have made an error but I never told a lie. I am not a liar and you have no business suggesting otherwise.
John

pete75
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby pete75 » 3 Jan 2021, 4:03pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Hamilton is not a tax cheat because he is not breaking tax laws. But I don believe he should receive an honour because he doesn't contribute to British society via his taxes.


Other than being an out and out lie* your second sentence means no one on a very low income should ever receive any sort of honour either.


* HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put Hamilton "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/mot ... 80786.html


It doesn't mean that at all. I was referring to someone wealthy choosing not to pay taxes then receiving honours. And I don't tell out and out lies. You have provided some evidence which contradicts what I wrote which I accept . I may have made an error but I never told a lie. I am not a liar and you have no business suggesting otherwise.


Hmmm You sound like a bloody politician trying to cover up for an untruth he's uttered.

Oldjohnw
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Oldjohnw » 3 Jan 2021, 7:17pm

I knew Hamilton deliberately lived abroad to reduce his tax. I, wrongly, assumed he paid no tax. You corrected me. I admitted an error immediately it was pointed out. I did not set out to mislead: that would be a lie. I am sorry you do not appear to know the difference and persist with considerable lack of grace.

Politicians do not admit they are wrong. I did.

PS I wonder what the moderators think when forum members call others liars.
John

Cyril Haearn
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Cyril Haearn » 3 Jan 2021, 7:53pm

Experts assert that everyone lies, I think that is true, for example being polite and grateful to an impolite shop person or a police officer

Quite possibly the infamous 'sportsperson' pays more €$ in tax where he 'dwells' than any of us, but less %. One could use statistics to lie, or at least mislead, about that
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pete75
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby pete75 » 4 Jan 2021, 12:02pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Experts assert that everyone lies, I think that is true, for example being polite and grateful to an impolite shop person or a police officer

Quite possibly the infamous 'sportsperson' pays more €$ in tax where he 'dwells' than any of us, but less %. One could use statistics to lie, or at least mislead, about that

He lives in Monaco. There isn't any income tax there nor much in the way of other taxes. The casinos are owned by the state and that's where they get most of the income to run the place.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Cyril Haearn » 4 Jan 2021, 12:51pm

pete75 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Experts assert that everyone lies, I think that is true, for example being polite and grateful to an impolite shop person or a police officer

Quite possibly the infamous 'sportsperson' pays more €$ in tax where he 'dwells' than any of us, but less %. One could use statistics to lie, or at least mislead, about that

He lives in Monaco. There isn't any income tax there nor much in the way of other taxes. The casinos are owned by the state and that's where they get most of the income to run the place.

Doubtless he has good tax attorneys, but maybe he pays tax on his planes
I understand The Palace has people vetted before they are honoured, one wonders if that leads to some honours not being issued
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Jdsk
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Jdsk » 4 Jan 2021, 12:59pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I understand The Palace has people vetted before they are honoured, one wonders if that leads to some honours not being issued

There's a committee for reviewing nominations for national honours... the "Honours Committee":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honours_Committee

and one for the unelected second chamber... the "House of Lords Appointments Commission":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Appointments_Commission

Are you suggesting that there is a step beyond those that is undertaken by "the Palace"?

...

The farcical nature of the whole thing is illustrated by the recent case of Cruddas. The Commission recommended against ennoblement and the Prime Minister simply went ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55414981

Jonathan

pete75
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby pete75 » 4 Jan 2021, 1:25pm

Jdsk wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I understand The Palace has people vetted before they are honoured, one wonders if that leads to some honours not being issued

There's a committee for reviewing nominations for national honours... the "Honours Committee":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honours_Committee

and one for the unelected second chamber... the "House of Lords Appointments Commission":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords_Appointments_Commission

Are you suggesting that there is a step beyond those that is undertaken by "the Palace"?

...

The farcical nature of the whole thing is illustrated by the recent case of Cruddas. The Commission recommended against ennoblement and the Prime Minister simply went ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55414981

Jonathan


Yep and Thatcher pushed through Savile's knighthood despite the committee recommending against it.

Oldjohnw
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 Jan 2021, 1:57pm

The honours and ennoblement processes are different. The PM (and just retired PM) appoint members of the Lord's plus a tiny number ofpublic nominations and Committee proposals - eg for Crossbenchers. The committee then ensures that the individual is sound but, as we know, the PM can override this, although AFAIK only Johnson has.

As Jonathan's link shows there is a number of committees reviewing honours. I am not aware that the PM overrides these. Most proposals are rejected at an early stage and a relatively small number go forward to the Cabinet Office Honours Committee.

I once worked on one of these committees.
The palace does not review these nominations although a very small number are in the direct gift of the Sovereign.
John

thirdcrank
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Jan 2021, 2:34pm

pete75 wrote: ... Yep and Thatcher pushed through Savile's knighthood despite the committee recommending against it.


I see from wiki that it's reported that his knighthood was rejected three times before going through on the fourth. I wonder on what grounds he was repeatedly rejected. Since his crimes were revealed, I've been surprised to get the impression that I was the only person in the country who didn't know what he was up to all along.

Bonefishblues
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Jan 2021, 2:51pm

thirdcrank wrote:
pete75 wrote: ... Yep and Thatcher pushed through Savile's knighthood despite the committee recommending against it.


I see from wiki that it's reported that his knighthood was rejected three times before going through on the fourth. I wonder on what grounds he was repeatedly rejected. Since his crimes were revealed, I've been surprised to get the impression that I was the only person in the country who didn't know what he was up to all along.

There were two of us - I'm on record as calling him an English Eccentric of the old school (or some such) when his death was announced.

mikeymo
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby mikeymo » 4 Jan 2021, 3:21pm

thirdcrank wrote:
pete75 wrote: ... Yep and Thatcher pushed through Savile's knighthood despite the committee recommending against it.


I see from wiki that it's reported that his knighthood was rejected three times before going through on the fourth. I wonder on what grounds he was repeatedly rejected. Since his crimes were revealed, I've been surprised to get the impression that I was the only person in the country who didn't know what he was up to all along.


I just thought he was a bit of a creep (until it all came out), either on the telly or if I saw him in Roundhay Park or riding his bike round north Leeds. I couldn't be doing with the silly hair, vulgar medallions and track suits that were naff, even back then.

Weirdly, or maybe revealingly, I was in the Lakeside Cafe once with my son, who must have been under 5, and Jimmy Savile was in the queue with us, and did a sort of mime with his hand of pointing a pistol at my son's head. I don't think my son even remembers it, and it wasn't particularly aggressive, just a nasty/strange thing for a public figure to do in a public place.

He was a regular at The Flying Pizza, the haunt of the local weekend millionaires, and some real ones too. I bet Adriano now wishes he'd refused to serve him (like he did Freddie Starr).

In a moment of self awareness though I remember hearing an interview with him once where he said that all the nonsense - "aa-aa-aa, how's about that then guys and gals" stuff would just see him laughed at in Yorkshire, and that he only got away with it in London because they though it was quaint or something.

pete75
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Re: New Year Honours Dec 2020

Postby pete75 » 4 Jan 2021, 3:52pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
pete75 wrote: ... Yep and Thatcher pushed through Savile's knighthood despite the committee recommending against it.


I see from wiki that it's reported that his knighthood was rejected three times before going through on the fourth. I wonder on what grounds he was repeatedly rejected. Since his crimes were revealed, I've been surprised to get the impression that I was the only person in the country who didn't know what he was up to all along.

There were two of us - I'm on record as calling him an English Eccentric of the old school (or some such) when his death was announced.


Well I had no idea about his activities but I thought there were many in the know like people in the music industry and the local police.