Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

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Scotland - an independent nation within 10 years?

Yes
48
54%
No
41
46%
 
Total votes: 89

Jdsk
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Jdsk »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 22 Aug 2021, 10:30amI don't really care what Scotland do but I do care that if the financial situation was to take downturn in Scotland, How many years will they expect us to prop them up, I'm thinking that the political Scotland Hasn't really thought about how they're really going to finance independence true independent that is.
The prime minister will be hard pressed to justify ever ending financial support for Scotland whilst they rule themselves?
I'm not aware of any proponents of independence who expect the current fiscal transfers to continue afterwards.

And there's been a vast amount of work on an independent Scotland's economy, much of it linked upthread. The loss of current transfers would be a problem, trade with England/ rump UK would be a problem, greater autonomy would bring opportunities, Membership of the EU would bring opportunities. I don't think that anyone's hiding the scale of the problems.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 May 2021, 12:21pm
Of course the nuclear subs would have to go to England.
There are several options: a leased base in Scotland, an exclave, England, another part of the UK, another country, scrap them.
It's good to know that the MoD are following this forum:

"The UK has drawn up secret contingency plans to move its Trident nuclear submarine bases from Scotland to the US or France in the event of Scottish independence.
"Another option under consideration is for the UK to seek a long-term lease for the Royal Navy’s nuclear bases at their current location in Faslane and Coulport on the west coast of Scotland. This would create a British territory within the borders of a newly separate Scotland, said people briefed on the plans."

https://www.ft.com/content/2e73ab9d-772 ... 207f0e982a

Jonathan
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Sorry about referring to an old comment, I pop in here very infrequently, but is it right to say that those outwith Scotland don't have any concern in the matter of Scottish independence?

IMHO independence is from the Union the other nations are also part of so the concern lies in whether it happens, the lead in to the vote/ it happening, the transition and also what happens after to some degree. All stages of it impact all nations of the Union so I think it's fair to comment on things as we see it.

From a purely rUK perspective I don't believe we get to hear much about how the more local government of Scotland is split up into the parties but we see a high proportion of SNP getting into Westminster and we see them getting a high proportion of the votes and MSP places. The party that's in power after independence will therefore be a concern if you have doubts about their abilities. Unstable Scotland after independence isn't good for rUK neither.

PS the Scots within Scotland can be equally worried or concerned about governance of rUK once they have left.

That's just my opinion. What is your opinion? Should we outwith Scotland leave this thread alone?
Jdsk
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Jdsk »

I'm a British subject living in England.

If Scotland becomes independent it will change the nature of my country, including the distribution of support for political parties, the fraction in favour of Rejoining the EU, the border for people, and the border for trade. That gives me plenty of "concerns". (An unstable Scotland isn't one of them, on the mote/beam principle.`)

Apart from that all changes in what makes a country are interesting because they throw so much light on what matters to other people.

Jonathan
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Tangled Metal »

It's a big upheaval so I'm a little concerned about Scotland and rUK if it happens. Brexit was a huge change but the union we're still in has a longer duration and more integration I think, so it's got a slightly different set of problems. It's another step into the unknown.

Whilst I trust the SNP and Sturgeon personally less than Boris, Corbyn (back when he mattered) and Starmer, I worry more about what that party will have as it's core after independence. It's obviously not of my concern after independence but if it becomes more anti English, well it would be an independent country with a land border to England / rUK that potentially could have strained relations. There's other concerns that may or may not happen but that's my point, it's why Scottish independence is the concern of rUK despite not having a say quite rightly.
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Paulatic
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Paulatic »

Tangled Metal wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 4:34pm if it becomes more anti English,
Which implies you believe they are already. Self determination might be fuelled by dissatisfaction but that’s not being anti a whole nation is it?
Tangled Metal wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 4:34pm it would be an independent country with a land border to England / rUK that potentially could have strained relations.
Potentially true but I’d have thought both countries will want to continue trading with each other perhaps you think otherwise.
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Mick F
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Mick F »

From our lives in Scotland, I can assure you that they were anti-English.
Lived there 1973 to 1980, then 1982 to 1985, and again 1991 to 1992.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Paulatic
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Paulatic »

Mick F wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 7:26pm From our lives in Scotland, I can assure you that they were anti-English.
Lived there 1973 to 1980, then 1982 to 1985, and again 1991 to 1992.
There wasn’t a Scottish Government in those dates. I think you are referring to the people you came into contact with.
Although TM didn’t specify I assumed "if it to refer to SNP and NS as mentioned in his previous sentence.
Yes we know TM met some neds in Newton Stewart but they weren’t representing the government either.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Mick F wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 7:26pm From our lives in Scotland, I can assure you that they were anti-English.
Lived there 1973 to 1980, then 1982 to 1985, and again 1991 to 1992.
Would you say English are anti Scotland?
Probably not so much....................I am not, but I think its right that in an event of Scot independence, England will have something to do with it and it will remain a sticking point.
I am curious about how scots feel................has it simply changed direction since leaving EU, is it worth going that far just to say we are are own people and we will determine how we govern / administrate...........

Is scotland really going to be better off with real independance?

I sense that politics is the stick over importance of administration.
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Paulatic
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Paulatic »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 5 Sep 2021, 12:31am is it worth going that far just to say we are are own people and we will determine how we govern / administrate...........
That’s a big question NA and perhaps there’s been a generational change to make you ask. :D I suspect the answer can only be found by asking everyone in Scotland their opinion. Perhaps we’ll name it IndyRef2. The current polls show the answer to be NO.
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Syd
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Syd »

Mick F wrote:From our lives in Scotland, I can assure you that they were anti-English.
Lived there 1973 to 1980, then 1982 to 1985, and again 1991 to 1992.
My English wife, who has lived in Scotland for 4 years now; my English boss, who had lived in Scotland for over 7 years now; and an English colleague who has lived in Scotland for nearly 20 years would all strongly disagree with you.
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Mick F
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Mick F »

I can only report the way we felt as a young married couple.
We'd moved up the Rosyth in May 1974 and went shopping regularly in Dunfermline.
Very unfriendly place in our experience.
We'll never forget it.
Edinburgh was just as bad.
Grumpy unfriendly people who would ignore you.

When we moved up to the West of Scotland in 1982, we found Dumbarton just about ok. Having done shopping in Glasgow, we found it much better than Edinburgh.

You wouldn't get us going back up there for all the tea in China. Yes, I've cycled up and down to Jog and the Far West, but that's all we want thank you

I've suggested to Mrs Mick F a few times over the years that we could take the train to Edinburgh, stay at a hotel, and hire a car and see all the old places. I won't tell you what she's said in reply! :shock:
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Syd »

Surprised at your thoughts on Edinburgh. I’ve lived there over 4 years and met many English during that time who happily live here too.

There are no doubt many reasons why people don’t get along with Edinburgh life but being English doesn’t appear to be one of them.
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Oldjohnw »

I am an Englishman and lived in the Borders - or at least just south of the Border - for nearly 40 years and found almost universally warmth and welcome. You will always find some nutters, on either side, who resent the other side for whatever illogical “reason” they come up with at the time but in the main, whether Edinburgh, Glasgow, the Highlands or the Borders I have only really met lovely people.

I have heard stories of English children starting school following a family move north and getting some stick over their accent. But that happened when I was at school on Tyneside if a southerner should turn up and still happens to northerners sometimes when they venture south.
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Jdsk
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be an independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Post by Jdsk »

"Programme for Government" appearing, includes:

"We will lead a green travel revolution," FM tells MSPs.

"By 2024-25, at least 10% of the transport budget will be dedicated to active travel."

As set out in the SNP manifesto there will be free bikes for children whose families can't afford them, she says.


https://www.thenational.scot/news/19564 ... -scotland/

Jonathan
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