Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

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Scotland - an independent nation within 10 years?

Yes
26
67%
No
13
33%
 
Total votes: 39

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Syd
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Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Syd » 4 Jan 2021, 6:26pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Syd wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Anyway, Nicola has gone indie today and shutdown Scotland. My car is due across the border next week when I take it for its annual service. Will I get nicked?

Highly unlikely to be nicked but there is a reasonable possibility you will be stopped and asked the reason for your journey and, if the officer deems it not appropriate, can turn you around.

Expect questions around why you require to cross the border for a vehicle service.


Pretty simple: VW garage where I have a contract is 20 miles away. Nearest English VW dealer is 60 miles away.

I understand that. Depending upon any Officer you meet they way, and I emphasise may, see things differently.

I have heard of others being turned around and directed to Supermarkets, as one example, much further from their intended one simply because it sat on the English side of the border.

rualexander
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby rualexander » 4 Jan 2021, 6:30pm

Mick F wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Yes, you are completely and utterly correct in everything you say. I totally agree with you 100%. Everything you write is the truth. You are clearly an expert ..................
Thank you.
Nice for you to say! :D
Mind you, I detect a slight ridiculing in your words?

I'm saying, and I know I'm right, is that the name of our country is The United Kingdom.
It's a kingdom due to our constitution and therefore ruled by a single monarch.
If Scotland want to leave the UK, they have to remove HMQ from their constitution because if they don't, they will still be in the United Kingdom.

The "United" part of the United Kingdom refers to the union of the Kingdom of Great Britain with the Kingdom of Ireland.
There is no reason why Scotland leaving the union it formed with England in1707, should have any bearing on who the monarch of Scotland is, who incidentally would probably be known as Queen of Scots rather than Queen of Scotland, should the people of Scotland choose to retain a monarchy.

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Paulatic
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Paulatic » 4 Jan 2021, 6:35pm

We will still have a Kingdom :)

The Kingdom of Fife.
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Jdsk » 4 Jan 2021, 6:39pm

rualexander wrote:
Mick F wrote:I'm saying, and I know I'm right, is that the name of our country is The United Kingdom.
It's a kingdom due to our constitution and therefore ruled by a single monarch.
If Scotland want to leave the UK, they have to remove HMQ from their constitution because if they don't, they will still be in the United Kingdom.

The "United" part of the United Kingdom refers to the union of the Kingdom of Great Britain with the Kingdom of Ireland.
There is no reason why Scotland leaving the union it formed with England in1707, should have any bearing on who the monarch of Scotland is, who incidentally would probably be known as Queen of Scots rather than Queen of Scotland, should the people of Scotland choose to retain a monarchy.

Yes, I don't see the problem with this bit.

Jonathan

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Jan 2021, 7:01pm

Hi,
I am not scottish.
They can do what they like within the laws we have as UK.
Based on the last scott ref what has changed?

Its not a uk problem but a scottish one.............but the PM has to agree...................what currency will they use..............if sterling then................they will not be independent?


I think that they want to use sterling for a interim......but how long......before its noted that they never broke free of UK and its currency..............

I am not sure the rest of the uk will swallow that :P
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Ben@Forest » 4 Jan 2021, 7:22pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Its not a uk problem but a scottish one.............but the PM has to agree...................what currency will they use..............if sterling then................they will not be independent?

I think that they want to use sterling for a interim......but how long......before its noted that they never broke free of UK and its currency..............

I am not sure the rest of the uk will swallow that :P


The Scots could the £ without a formal currency agreement (just as Panama uses the US $ and Kosovo uses the Euro). But this would mean they wouldn't meet some of the criteria to join the Euro which is their ultimate aim.

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Jdsk » 4 Jan 2021, 7:36pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Based on the last scott ref what has changed?

I'd suggest that the big changes that are relevant might include:
1 Being forced to Leave the EU.
2 Experience of the Scottish Government.
3 Experience of recent UK Governments.
4 Age shift.

Jonathan

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Jdsk » 4 Jan 2021, 7:38pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Its not a uk problem but a scottish one.............but the PM has to agree...................what currency will they use..............if sterling then................they will not be independent?

I think that they want to use sterling for a interim......but how long......before its noted that they never broke free of UK and its currency..............

I am not sure the rest of the uk will swallow that :P

The Scots could the £ without a formal currency agreement (just as Panama uses the US $ and Kosovo uses the Euro). But this would mean they wouldn't meet some of the criteria to join the Euro which is their ultimate aim.

Yes. But it isn't mandatory at the time of Joining...

Jonathan

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby pwa » 4 Jan 2021, 7:47pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:As an aside and interesting thought experiment. What would happen if England ever had a referendum to leave the Union and us English voted to leave? How could it happen considering the parliament of the Union is in England? How would the systems of state and in non-Scottish areas the legal system?

I think compared to England leaving Scotland leaving still be easy I think.

PS I'm close to the point if we ever got the opportunity of vote to leave the Union!!

Perhaps you are making the mistake of caring too much. You don't live in Scotland, so none of what goes on there affects you very much. The people who do live there are capable of making their own decisions on which party to vote for and how they position Scotland in the scheme of things. Just leave them to it.

Perhaps read that quoted bit again. It was about England and the idea about how England could leave the Union since so much of the combined Union activities happens within England's boundaries. I do live in England so such a hypothetical matter would and should be something I care about. I've already stated quite a few times I've got no skin in the Scottish independence n matter but that's not what I was on about.

Perhaps you could comment on what I posted, namely how could England leave the Union hypothetically??

Fair enough, I read it too quickly. I thought we were still on Scotland.

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 Jan 2021, 7:48pm

It's not a UK problem but a Scottish one unless...

You live less than a mile within the border and Scotland also joins the EU.
John

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Ben@Forest » 4 Jan 2021, 8:14pm

Jdsk wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Its not a uk problem but a scottish one.............but the PM has to agree...................what currency will they use..............if sterling then................they will not be independent?

I think that they want to use sterling for a interim......but how long......before its noted that they never broke free of UK and its currency..............

I am not sure the rest of the uk will swallow that :P

The Scots could the £ without a formal currency agreement (just as Panama uses the US $ and Kosovo uses the Euro). But this would mean they wouldn't meet some of the criteria to join the Euro which is their ultimate aim.

Yes. But it isn't mandatory at the time of Joining...


Yes it is. Just because a country is joining the EU but not the eurozone straight away does not mean it does not have to comply with the Copenhagen criteria. Which in a nutshell include:

Five points are of key interest in a country’s economy, and these are the exchange rate stability of its currency, the long-term interest rates, the government budget deficit, HICP inflation and the government debt-to-GDP ratio.

The two emboldened could not possibly be in Scotland's control if it did not have either its own currency or central bank or a currency agreement with rUK. I highlight them only because they're easy to understand, as Scotland couldn't control the other three either if it was using the £ without an agreement.

This is something any advocate for Scottish independence constantly kicks down the road. In 2014 the SNP line was that though all the other political parties said they would not enter a currency agreement they would do so 'after the fact'. It is the sort of unrealistic machination Remainers have accused Brexiters of for years

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Tangled Metal » 4 Jan 2021, 9:06pm

What about the Scottish banks that print their own version of the pound? It's it three or two banks? Are they halfway to a Scottish currency? What are the roles of those banks? Do they have any control over the currency they print? ELI5! I seriously have no idea of the roles and responsibilities of those banks. I understood that they are legal tender wherever a pound is legal tender. I also know of shops that take and refuse to take Scottish pounds south of the Scottish border including in Wales. Our local shops always take them because it's kind of on the way south from Scotland.

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Jdsk » 4 Jan 2021, 9:14pm

Their status is weird by modern standards:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_Scotland

I don't think that they're particularly relevant to the problematic currency options of an independent Scotland as a Member State of the EU.

It did once ripple to the surface:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_pound_sterling#Scotland_and_Northern_Ireland
"During the public debate leading up to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the question of Scotland's future currency was discussed. Whilst the SNP advocated a currency union between an independent Scotland and the remaining United Kingdom, HM Treasury issued a statement in April 2013 stating that the present relationship with the Bank of England could be changed after independence, with the result that Scottish banks might lose the ability to issue banknotes backed by Bank of England funds."

Jonathan

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Ben@Forest » 4 Jan 2021, 9:16pm

Tangled Metal wrote:What about the Scottish banks that print their own version of the pound? It's it three or two banks? Are they halfway to a Scottish currency? What are the roles of those banks? Do they have any control over the currency they print? ELI5! I seriously have no idea of the roles and responsibilities of those banks. I understood that they are legal tender wherever a pound is legal tender. I also know of shops that take and refuse to take Scottish pounds south of the Scottish border including in Wales. Our local shops always take them because it's kind of on the way south from Scotland.


They aren't legal tender. In a way they are a sop to recognising Scotland has its own national identity. From Wikpedia:

Scottish banknotes are unusual, first because they are issued by retail banks, not government central banks, and second, because they are technically not legal tender anywhere in the United Kingdom – not even in Scotland. As such, they are classified as promissory notes, and the law requires that the issuing banks hold a sum of Bank of England banknotes or gold equivalent to the total value of notes issued.

The fact that the notes are not defined as legal tender means that they are not withdrawn from circulation in the same way as the Bank of England notes, which cease to be legal tender on a given date. Instead the Scottish banks withdraw old notes from circulation as they are banked. Any notes still in circulation continue to be honoured by banks,but retailers may refuse to accept older notes.

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Re: Scotland - do you predict that it will be independent administrative political entity within 10 years?

Postby Paulatic » 4 Jan 2021, 9:42pm

The Bank of England note isn’t legal tender in Scotland.
Like a Scottish note it is legal currency approved by UK gov.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowled ... gal-tender
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