Vegan "Cheese"

[mikeymo]

Some humans have recently evolved lactase persistence, and the mechanisms are pretty well understood.

Out of interest, what are those mechanisms?

The adaption to tolerate milk is often used to refute the "paleo" diet theory. In fact it seems to be the usual one that's trotted out, which tends to make me think it might be the only one.

Not that I'm committed to any sort of dietary ideology. I don't have an axe to grind in the food wars. Well, except when I'm sharpening one to butcher the neighbours' dogs.

[Oldjohnw]

I don't mind people liking veg cheese or whatever. But they shouldn't call it cheese. It isn't. Call it something else as a newly invented product, but not cheese.

AFAIK "they" don't call it cheese.

It's fairly well labelled on the packaging (at least looking at a quick google image search).
A lot of the packages never mentioned cheese at all and the ones that did said "cheese alternative" with greater emphasis on the word "vegan" which I suspect is a bit of a giveaway.
Interestingly "cheddar alternative" seems to be more frequently used than "cheese alternative".


...

I must admit I have never looked at this product's labelling. Just that the thread is called vegan "cheese" (yes, I saw the inverted commas".

I should realise that you cannot contradict someone called Kwackers when talking about cheese.

A slight thread merge with the R and W thread!

[Jdsk]

Some humans have recently evolved lactase persistence, and the mechanisms are pretty well understood.

Out of interest, what are those mechanisms?

"Lactase persistence":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

It's a really good article, including the bit about the co-evolution of genes and culture.

And mentions the possible malaria link... yet another example of the enormous effect of malaria on humans.

Jonathan

[mikeymo]

Some humans have recently evolved lactase persistence, and the mechanisms are pretty well understood.

Out of interest, what are those mechanisms?

"Lactase persistence":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

It's a really good article, including the bit about the co-evolution of genes and culture.

And mentions the possible malaria link... yet another example of the enormous effect of malaria on humans.

Jonathan

Thanks. I can't gain access to one of the references, so can't see how close "majority" is to "50".

[kwackers]

The whole dairy thing is bizarre imo.
I mean nature saw fit to turn off our tolerance to lactose once we're weaned.

Worldwide it's about 50/50.

Speak to dogs and cats worldwide?
I think you'll find it 100%.

Most cats are lactose intolerant, not sure about dogs but lactose intolerance is definitely a thing in some dogs too.

That's "most" not all and definitely not 100%.

[Jdsk]

I can't gain access to one of the references, so can't see how close "majority" is to "50".

This 2010 calculation gives about 35% for persistence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048992/

Jonathan

[Tangled Metal]

I've still not forgiven the government from WWII who allowed forb the bastardization of cheddar cheese to allow for cheap and nasty cheese replica being sold as cheddar. Thus preventing the geographical protection other regional European cheeses got. It's a crime against good food and regional specialities.

To call anything that's not made by a process that's at least equivalent to traditional cheese making a cheese is unethical because it's not cheese. My opposition is to vegan foods being called a non vegan name because it's strictly isn't equivalent. If it's good enough can't it stand under its own name, reputation and quality?

[Mick F]

Worldwide it's about 50/50.

Speak to dogs and cats worldwide?
I think you'll find it 100%.

Most cats are lactose intolerant, not sure about dogs but lactose intolerance is definitely a thing in some dogs too.

That's "most" not all and definitely not 100%.

We've had five dogs in our married life, and all have loved milk.
Maybe a dozen (or more?) cats in those years, and they've loved milk too.
Had dogs and cats all my life also, and all have loved milk.
We have an African Grey parrot, and she'll drink milk too.
All the above, have eaten cheese as well - and the parrot loves it!
100% in my estimation.



As for Johnathan's point/question, humans are only mammals. Nothing special except for our brains.

[Jdsk]

I've still not forgiven the government from WWII who allowed forb the bastardization of cheddar cheese to allow for cheap and nasty cheese replica being sold as cheddar. Thus preventing the geographical protection other regional European cheeses got. It's a crime against good food and regional specialities.

Cheddar cheese was produced in other countries before WWII. A geographically reserved name wasn't available by then with or without "Government Cheddar".

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

To call anything that's not made by a process that's at least equivalent to traditional cheese making a cheese is unethical because it's not cheese. My opposition is to vegan foods being called a non vegan name because it's strictly isn't equivalent. If it's good enough can't it stand under its own name, reputation and quality?

Has anyone marketed the vegan products as "cheese"?

Thanks

Jonathan

[mikeymo]

As for Johnathan's point/question, humans are only mammals. Nothing special except for our brains.

Here, biological taxonomy. O Level Biology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank#:~:text=There%20are%20seven%20main%20taxonomic,a%20synonym%20for%20dominion%20(lat.

[Jdsk]

As for Johnathan's point/question, humans are only mammals. Nothing special except for our brains.

Which other mammals show lactase persistence?

Thanks

Jonathan

[kwackers]

We've had five dogs in our married life, and all have loved milk.
Maybe a dozen (or more?) cats in those years, and they've loved milk too.
Had dogs and cats all my life also, and all have loved milk.
We have an African Grey parrot, and she'll drink milk too.
All the above, have eaten cheese as well - and the parrot loves it!
100% in my estimation.



As for Johnathan's point/question, humans are only mammals. Nothing special except for our brains.

"Loving" something isn't the same as being good for them.

Cat's cant digest lactose, same as most mammals.
The necessary enzymes get turned off when they're weaned.

The affect it has on them varies, they may simply puke up, they may get diarrhea or they may simply feel off.
The idea that you can feed them milk was debunked years ago, it's like feeding children sweets. They may like it but that proves nothing.

[mumbojumbo]

We make our own,using coconut cream and tofu,with a natural colorant.Turmeric is a good colour yellow.We strain our mixture through a Muslim Bag,to separate solids and moisture.Allow a few days for fermentation,scraping off any surface mould.In spring we add chopped wild garlic and nettles.You cannot grill unless you add some extra oil.Good when added to a beef burger.It is a genuine diary free product.

[661-Pete]

Of course, if technology were to come up with an exact taste-alike for Roquefort, Stilton, Manchego, Gouda, Wensleydale, Comté, Parmesan....

Doesn't really need to be exact though does it...
I mean, cheese comes in so many flavours and textures some of which IMO are genuinely worse than the vegan equivalent.

I was just listing some of my faves - yes there have got to be cheeses out there that I don't like, though I'm quite a cheese-o-phile. I suppose stuff like that synthetic 'Monterey Jack' we once had to endure, come close.

As things stand, I doubt if there's any vegan offering that would pass a sort of 'Turing test' with me: i.e. if I was fed with some unseen, I wouldn't know the difference from real cheese. But in the future, who knows? For the time being it'll have to be cow's, goat's and sheep's-milk cheese. The best we can manage is to cut down a bit. But at least I can say, I tried...

I don't mind people liking veg cheese or whatever. But they shouldn't call it cheese. It isn't. Call it something else as a newly invented product, but not cheese.

AFAIK "they" don't call it cheese.

The two packs in our fridge at the moment: one of them doesn't mention 'cheese' at all (though it does mention 'cheddar'), the other pack only in the phrase "takes longer to melt than traditional cheese". I think they're not allowed to call it cheese. That's fine by me, though I do object to diktats like the recent French one (since retracted) forbidding calling veggie sausages 'sausages'. If you carry this PC trope too far it'll just get confusing.