R or W?

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reohn2
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Re: R or W?

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jan 2021, 10:17pm

colin54 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:No they don't.

There a forum member who I've ridden with a few time who's from darn sarf says some words I use in confersation with him need a translation as he doesn't recognise them :)

Maybe you've never had to say maald before Mick, only bitter. :)

If that's me r2, I wouldn't say sarf, I'd say saauth being from 'artfordshire originally not, 'ackney.
Mind you when I left grammar school I would probably have said 'dine sithe' for me sins, I soon lost that in the world of work !

Very perceptive of you Colin.

PS,forgive my accent ignorance :wink:
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colin54
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Re: R or W?

Postby colin54 » 5 Jan 2021, 10:36pm

reohn2 wrote:
PS,forgive my accent ignorance :wink:

I will, if you will me duck :)
I do find how James May says 'want' weird though, and Richard Hammond, though slightly less marked , they say 'wunt',
I'd never heard that pronunciation before I watched 'Top Gear' ( ducks for cover ).

francovendee
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Re: R or W?

Postby francovendee » 6 Jan 2021, 8:23am

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
francovendee wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:Yo Am 53 Fam innit.Get wiv it guy!

:lol: :lol:

Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

The really sad thing is there's one of the dads who used to be outside my sons Junior school that spoke like that and he was well into his 30s :roll: I heard him speak a few days ago in Coop and he's still doing it.He has to be 40 by now.He sounds ridiculous :| If he was one of my mates I'd have to have a word :lol:

That's bad, makes me cringe just thinking about it. The question I can't answer is why? What is the appeal of speaking like that. If you're a kid then it would be peer pressure but an adult?

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Paulatic
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Re: R or W?

Postby Paulatic » 6 Jan 2021, 9:17am

I’m a great defender of local accents and love how you can pinpoint where folk are from. Aged 13 I was very impressed by a shopkeeper in the Highlands who pinpointed me immediately to Barnard Castle after I spoke. I’ve been honing those skills ever since. Locally there is a mile between Beattock and Moffat yet listen closely and I can tell you who was raised in Beattock. I think it was due to schooling and a long standing teacher. It might not be as easy with the current generation.
When I went to school teachers were very keen for you to loose your accent and speak propa.
However there is one aspect and as hard as I think about it I’m never fully able to say why. Why do some local accents sound alien to you and immediately make warming to them a little harder. For me most American, some London, and South East accents immediately make it harder to warm to them.
It seems we are conditioned to like where we grew up. I grew up on Teesside and whilst I don’t like fishing I immediately warm to Bob Mortimer his accent and humour. My Grandfather spoke thick Teesside and I had to translate to Mrs P as she couldn’t understand a word being a Darlington lass. Any local could tell Paul Daniels was from South Bank and Bob was a Boro lad yet in Leicestershire they might well say they were both from Newcastle :lol:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: R or W?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Jan 2021, 9:29am

francovendee wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
francovendee wrote:Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

The really sad thing is there's one of the dads who used to be outside my sons Junior school that spoke like that and he was well into his 30s :roll: I heard him speak a few days ago in Coop and he's still doing it.He has to be 40 by now.He sounds ridiculous :| If he was one of my mates I'd have to have a word :lol:

That's bad, makes me cringe just thinking about it. The question I can't answer is why? What is the appeal of speaking like that. If you're a kid then it would be peer pressure but an adult?


All language is peer driven, on the basis that it is used to communicate with one's peers.

(Yes deliberately affected).

There are a good number of linguistic prescriptivists on here, and I fall into that category at times.


If you really want a fight...

Aluminium, or Aluminum?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

reohn2
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Re: R or W?

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jan 2021, 9:48am

Paulatic wrote:I’m a great defender of local accents and love how you can pinpoint where folk are from. Aged 13 I was very impressed by a shopkeeper in the Highlands who pinpointed me immediately to Barnard Castle after I spoke. I’ve been honing those skills ever since. Locally there is a mile between Beattock and Moffat yet listen closely and I can tell you who was raised in Beattock. I think it was due to schooling and a long standing teacher. It might not be as easy with the current generation.
When I went to school teachers were very keen for you to loose your accent and speak propa.
However there is one aspect and as hard as I think about it I’m never fully able to say why. Why do some local accents sound alien to you and immediately make warming to them a little harder. For me most American, some London, and South East accents immediately make it harder to warm to them.
It seems we are conditioned to like where we grew up. I grew up on Teesside and whilst I don’t like fishing I immediately warm to Bob Mortimer his accent and humour. My Grandfather spoke thick Teesside and I had to translate to Mrs P as she couldn’t understand a word being a Darlington lass. Any local could tell Paul Daniels was from South Bank and Bob was a Boro lad yet in Leicestershire they might well say they were both from Newcastle :lol:

I agree regional accents are softening,IMHO it's due toTV and a movement of people in the country through work,lanuage is a borne out of a need to communicate and is constantly evolving.
When I was at secondary school we had a kid in our class who'd just moved moved into the area from Liverpool,he had a thick scouse accent that we could understand perfectly but he openly confessed he couldn't understand a word us Wigginers spoke,it took him a while but he got there in the end :)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: R or W?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Jan 2021, 10:06am

My brother went to uni, and was in a flat with 5 scousers, came back with an impenetrable scouse accent (but he has always picked up accents wherever he has gone).

He has worked hard to maintain his "BBC British" accent when in the US particularly, though now lives in Australia, and has done for a many years. There are elements of both dialect and accent which I suspect he will find difficult to shake now.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: R or W?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 6 Jan 2021, 10:15am

Paulatic wrote:I’m a great defender of local accents and love how you can pinpoint where folk are from. Aged 13 I was very impressed by a shopkeeper in the Highlands who pinpointed me immediately to Barnard Castle after I spoke. I’ve been honing those skills ever since. Locally there is a mile between Beattock and Moffat yet listen closely and I can tell you who was raised in Beattock. I think it was due to schooling and a long standing teacher. It might not be as easy with the current generation.
When I went to school teachers were very keen for you to loose your accent and speak propa.
However there is one aspect and as hard as I think about it I’m never fully able to say why. Why do some local accents sound alien to you and immediately make warming to them a little harder. For me most American, some London, and South East accents immediately make it harder to warm to them.
It seems we are conditioned to like where we grew up.

Yes, it's interesting but quite hard to pin down.
Though we are of course very tribal, deep down.

There is research on accents and their favouredness/ acceptability. (which I can't be bothered to go and find, sorry)

There is yet another dimension though, and that is the the relative positions in society -social status.

Received Pronunciation is, in research, often found to be quite well "favoured" right across various accent and social groups throughout the UK.
It has been suggested that this is because it is (certainly historically but still broadly the case ) the language of power.
The language of the ruling class.
Anyone speaking it can "curry favour" in a subliminal way!

You are more likely to buy that secondhand car/bike/ appliance from an RP speaker than from a broad Brummie!! ((Brummie being one of the least favoured accents in the UK.))
It gives a sense of trust!!

This affect goes further than old bangers though. :shock: :shock:

And a great many people cultivate such an "improved" pronunciation for just those reasons.
Gandalf said to those listening to Saruman, "beware of his voice".
Tolkien was a linguist.

colin54
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Re: R or W?

Postby colin54 » 6 Jan 2021, 10:33am

My late Mother was from Keith in Banffshire (Moray now) in the north of Scotland, I once asked a friend if she had a strong Scots accent, I couldn't hear it somehow, he said yes of course, it being 'just' my Mum's voice I didn't hear it.
I was visiting Hawick in the Scottish Borders (was Roxburghshire) where my late Father was from and there was an article in the local paper by an English journalist who had settled in the town who was told 'if you can't understand what's being said you're not listening fast enough' ( translated into English)!
Hawick still has a strong local scots language usage, Teri (Hawick Person).
A University Professor, Douglas Scott, a Teri exile in Canada has written a very scholarly tome on Hawick, called 'A Hawick Word Book' which explains all grammatically, with sometimes hilarious examples and history of Hawick and it's past and peoples in fantastic detail, of interest to you linguists out there. It's a large pdf file (whatever that means) 3566 pages long.
Sadly I can't remember my Father's voice, he passed away 50 years ago.
I won't link to the book, as this is written on the frontispiece thusly:- Aa rights reserved, Nai part of this book may be doobelt.....
It's linked as item 2 in the Wikipedia page below though.
Here's a youtube clip with Rory Bremner being given an impromptu lesson in Teri Talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK09wG8yYes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teribus_ye_teri_odin
Being raised in South-East England the way I say my own name disappoints me, Colin sounds a bit dull the way I say it. If I hear a Scots or American person saying it the C has a harder K sound to it, possibly the way their 'o' vowel pronunciation is linked to it. It just kind of limps out of my gob...tricky stuff language...

Teri bus ye teri odin !
A funny Moray sung mince tale !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
Last edited by colin54 on 8 Jan 2021, 9:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paulatic
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Re: R or W?

Postby Paulatic » 6 Jan 2021, 11:54am

My first few years in Scotland we weekly shopped in Hawick and for nearly 40 years been within a long bike ride and never knew Teri.
Love what you learn on here.
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sjs
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Re: R or W?

Postby sjs » 6 Jan 2021, 12:52pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:If you really want a fight...

Aluminium, or Aluminum?


Nuclear or nucular?

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al_yrpal
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Re: R or W?

Postby al_yrpal » 6 Jan 2021, 1:05pm

East Anglia or East Angular ( remembering poor Jade Goody ). An Essex gel...I went to Primary School with her Uncle.

Al
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colin54
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Re: R or W?

Postby colin54 » 6 Jan 2021, 6:12pm

Paulatic wrote:My first few years in Scotland we weekly shopped in Hawick and for nearly 40 years been within a long bike ride and never knew Teri.
Love what you learn on here.

The Horse statue in Hawick is often used to give directions from, as in 'ken the horse' go right there etc, it is sometimes cheekily called 'Ken the Horse' because of this.

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Paulatic
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Re: R or W?

Postby Paulatic » 6 Jan 2021, 6:47pm

Aye, Ken the horse :D I turned left and nearly came off on ice one morning.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: R or W?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 11 Jan 2021, 5:27pm

sjs wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:If you really want a fight...

Aluminium, or Aluminum?


Nuclear or nucular?


That one's easy - the full word for Al isn't...

Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in -ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.



The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) officially standardised on aluminium in 1990, but those who live north of Mexico haven't bothered.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.