District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

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peetee
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby peetee » 6 Jan 2021, 6:01pm

I find if curious that such a substantial wall was used to shield a small beck. I would expect to see something like a 3ft iron railing. Could this have once been the case and they were removed during WW2 and this wall was built from the remains of the colliery sometime after? I can’t establish when it closed or, and this is going to sound contradictory to my theory, imagine how the wording could be used in such a setting.
The other thing that supports the later wall idea is that there are no piers at the ends which there would likely be if the bridge was constructed as one with a stone arch construction. I think it may just be a concrete and/or steel span and the wall a later addition.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
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colin54
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby colin54 » 6 Jan 2021, 6:43pm

peetee wrote:I find if curious that such a substantial wall was used to shield a small beck. I would expect to see something like a 3ft iron railing. Could this have once been the case and they were removed during WW2 and this wall was built from the remains of the colliery sometime after? I can’t establish when it closed or, and this is going to sound contradictory to my theory, imagine how the wording could be used in such a setting.
The other thing that supports the later wall idea is that there are no piers at the ends which there would likely be if the bridge was constructed as one with a stone arch construction. I think it may just be a concrete and/or steel span and the wall a later addition.

Here's the back of the wall peetee.
P1120464.JPG

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Paulatic
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby Paulatic » 6 Jan 2021, 7:01pm

peetee wrote:I find if curious that such a substantial wall was used to shield a small beck. I would expect to see something like a 3ft iron railing.

In this area when an old bridge becomes weak and it’s over a small burn they replace the bridge with preformed concrete square pipe and build a wall similar to that.
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peetee
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby peetee » 6 Jan 2021, 7:19pm

Burn, beck. Perhaps I have introduced an east vs west Pennines thing? :lol:

Hmmm. Before I sink, theories and all, I draw your attention to the difference between the coping stones on those two bridges. Perhaps the sloping, lettered ones are later additions from elsewhere.
Glug.

Glug.


Glug.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

colin54
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby colin54 » 6 Jan 2021, 10:02pm

peetee wrote:Burn, beck. Perhaps I have introduced an east vs west Pennines thing? :lol:

Hmmm. Before I sink, theories and all, I draw your attention to the difference between the coping stones on those two bridges. Perhaps the sloping, lettered ones are later additions from elsewhere.
Glug.

Glug.


Glug.

Looking at the wall as a whole they don't look right do they, all crammed down one end; possibly from elsewhere is as near as we'll get I fear.
I wouldn't want to move one of the longer stones, they must weigh a good bit.
Thanks again all.
P1120455.JPG

Enjoy your glug peetee!

peetee
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby peetee » 7 Jan 2021, 8:39am

An interesting little conundrum to let lie at the back of your mind while you look at local history - assuming you are into that sort of thing. It’s likely to be a local authority construction using materials from their storage and reclaimation yards and historically they controlled a lot more than they do now possibly including electrical services, tramways, waterworks all of which could have been demolished/refurbished before the time when the wall was finished.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

colin54
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby colin54 » 7 Jan 2021, 8:52am

peetee wrote:An interesting little conundrum to let lie at the back of your mind while you look at local history - assuming you are into that sort of thing. It’s likely to be a local authority construction using materials from their storage and reclaimation yards and historically they controlled a lot more than they do now possibly including electrical services, tramways, waterworks all of which could have been demolished/refurbished before the time when the wall was finished.

I'll have to keep my eye open for the 'missing block' ! I spotted another two ww2 anti-tank blocks I hadn't noticed before yesterday, about 4ftx4ft of solid concrete, just tucked out of the way and covered in ivy, I'd ridden past them loads of times.

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Mick F
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby Mick F » 7 Jan 2021, 9:33am

Course Lane, Newburgh.
My paper round was along Course Lane.

Lived at Ranleigh Drive just off Cobbs Brow Lane, paper shop was in Parbold opposite the bottom of Beech Avenue.

Can you give me a Google Streetview link to that wall?
To be absolutely honest, I can't recall it at all despite knowing every inch of Parbold and Newburgh in the 60s.


PS;
Sorry, you have given a link.
It's not Course Lane though, as Course Lane starts on the bend by the post office at the junction of Back Lane.

Been past there millions of times, but never seen that wall.
Mind you, those houses weren't there when we lived in Newburgh, so that wall could have been added later.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jan 2021, 9:38am

Colin
Looking at the last photo I think you're right they don't fit.
If the 'ict' block was moved to the left edge of the wall there'd then be a gap for more letters between the T and ict what they would be could be a subject for discussion :)
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Mick F
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby Mick F » 7 Jan 2021, 9:47am

Yes, I'm almost positive that that wall never used to be there.
It's an addition.




As for "districts", there used to be a district border at the bottom of Ash Brow as the road crossed the Douglas.
The tarmac used to change.

Something about a Rural District Council and an Urban District Council. Wigan and Ormskirk I think.

Just here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58684 ... 384!8i8192
Mick F. Cornwall

peetee
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby peetee » 7 Jan 2021, 10:09am

The houses opposite date from the late 70’s/early 80’s IME. Perhaps their construction and that of the culvert, bridge span and wall were concurrent? Certainly late enough for the inclusion of cast-off ex-industrial stonework to be incorporated. Looking at the way the entire parapet has been laid I think the coping stones are not later additions, rather the whole thing was assembled from previously located stonework. The last collection of four letters is curious. The dimensions of the ‘t’ don’t match those in the previous word - the strike across the top is in the wrong place. Perhaps it’s an ‘l’ with a bit of extra mortar holding on to a recess in the stonework? But then again, what word ends in cl? :? Also I wonder if that second letter is an ‘r’? Granted it’s too close to the end of the stone for that but then if they were used elsewhere they could have been trimmed.
Was there a tramway locally? And where was the pit and what is there now?
Late edit: the c in
‘Tict’ has a very straight upright in comparison with the one in District. Are we looking at the end of the word ‘Council’?
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

colin54
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby colin54 » 7 Jan 2021, 10:35am

Mick F wrote:Yes, I'm almost positive that that wall never used to be there.
It's an addition.




As for "districts", there used to be a district border at the bottom of Ash Brow as the road crossed the Douglas.
The tarmac used to change.

Something about a Rural District Council and an Urban District Council. Wigan and Ormskirk I think.

Just here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.58684 ... 384!8i8192

Hi Mick, Thanks for your reply. I've seen the district change marking elsewhere on Bridges in this area, bottom of Redrock Lane for one , I've a picture of it somewhere. I was thinking yesterday the the 'ct' on the second stone could be the end of the word district so these stones could well have come from another larger bridge which had a boundary marking, possibly when a bridge was upgraded. From The Douglas Bridge even ?
I noticed this small arrow shaped infill by the end of the word District which may support this idea. picture
According to the maps now Course Lane seems to end a bit further past that wall to the corner by Smithy Brow they may have extended it to give the new houses an address when they were built ??
P1120457.JPG

Here's a nostalgia photo for you Mick. I often finish my flask at this fancy bench just by Ranleigh Drive on the way up to Skem, you can see the sign in the background.
P1120446.JPG
Last edited by colin54 on 7 Jan 2021, 11:43am, edited 1 time in total.

colin54
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby colin54 » 7 Jan 2021, 11:28am

peetee wrote:... And where was the pit and what is there now ?

Here's a couple of maps showing location of the colliery and other perhaps earlier workings in the village.
All there is now is a depression in the ground, I think it's on a parcel of grazing land that's for sale at the moment.
Last year there was a road restriction in the village to enable some underpinning work to be carried out on one of the older houses further along Course Lane from the bridge past the Post office, due to subsidence caused by the mine workings.
P1120524.JPG

P1120525.JPG

x marks the wall in the second map.
As you can see by this 1892 -1914 georeference map the pit was no longer marked, but the stream is shown.
I did know the dates it closed roughly when it piqued my interest last year but I've lost the paper I wrote it all down on,
sometime in the 19th century probably, I did have an exact date but I can't remember where I found it.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by ... ht=BingHyb
You can zoom out from this view as well obviously, Skelmersdale's interesting to look at all the mines and associated rail structure.
mostly built over or just bumps in the landscape now.
You can see the line of the stream clearly on this map as it comes out of fields beyond Tabby's Nook, it looks like it's still visible in places in the current estate. There are quite a few springs which come out of the ground up the hill from here, plus the rainfall, seldom any shortage of water into the stream hereabouts !

peetee
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby peetee » 7 Jan 2021, 1:25pm

This picture shows that there was a boundary marker by the bridge. There are two others along the lane, one in either direction, so the stream may not have been the division. Or is that a surveying Benchmark with height above sea level? I forget .
D3E6CCBA-AD51-4B96-BA03-4C0CD73960D0.jpeg
Last edited by peetee on 7 Jan 2021, 1:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

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Paulatic
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Re: District Tict ? Newburgh W.Lancs.

Postby Paulatic » 7 Jan 2021, 1:28pm

Probably easier to see on site. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=1 ... rs=168&b=4
I’ve had that page open a few days but divined nothing.
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