Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
millimole
Posts: 655
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby millimole » 10 Jan 2021, 6:18pm

Cowsham wrote:Train Drivers ! Choo choo.....or choo ching !


Very strong Trade Union working for those with a very responsible job, and only /just/ enough trained drivers to fill the required number of jobs (and a very high bar to get over to get into training position)
It's very common for TOCs & FOCs (Train / Freight Operating Companies) to poach drivers from their rivals through ever-higher pay offers - so job hopping is relatively common.

I'm told by someone in the industry that it's possible that the gravy train (sorry couldn't resist) for rail drivers may soon be ending because of the huge drop in rail travel PLUS the effective re-nationalisation of passenger services.

Postboxer
Posts: 1732
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Postboxer » 10 Jan 2021, 6:22pm

Train drivers can also threaten and then organise very effective strikes.

millimole
Posts: 655
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby millimole » 10 Jan 2021, 6:27pm

Postboxer wrote:Also there seems little point comparing their wages to the national average, they need to be compared against people with similar levels of qualifications and training, then also take into account the difficulty, stress levels, shift patterns, health risks, ongoing training, annual assessments, insurance costs and culpability of working in the NHS versus other professions.


To a large extent that's what the Agenda for Change (AfC) process of regrading NHS jobs was meant to do.
All jobs in the NHS - except Medical, Dental and Directors - were subject to a points based assessement of the job, using by-and large the elements you mention above. The grades were then allocated according to the number of points for the job (not the person). It was very traumatic with a lot of winners, and a significant number of losers.
The fact the NHS got through it without 'industrial action' was remarkable, and that the general public never realised it was happening was a testament to the people involved.

The AfC Job Evaluation handbook is at https://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Em ... ndbook.pdf If you have the strength to get into it!

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 10 Jan 2021, 6:32pm

landsurfer wrote:My niece is a nurse. She qualified 8 years ago. 2019 she earned £38k ... 2020 she's earned a lot more due to overtime and doing some work in the private sector to support the outsourcing that Covid caused ...
How do i know .... because we discussed it over the xmas period ...

What Band is she and where in the UK is she if you don't mind me asking?
My wife is a Band7 Senior Sister and he basic salary(inc benefits) is £33k.She actually took a pay cut when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago due to differences in modern contracts and the one she signed in the 90s.Now she's a Senior Sister,although her official title is Ward manager,she does less O/T and nights so in real terms earns less than she would as a Sister :|
I personally wouldn't do what she does,with all the responsibility,for her salary!

ossie
Posts: 1139
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby ossie » 10 Jan 2021, 6:38pm

Postboxer wrote:Train drivers can also threaten and then organise very effective strikes.


French train drivers literally do it at the drop of a hat.

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Jdsk » 10 Jan 2021, 6:44pm

If anyone's interested in the crisis in nurse numbers in the NHS I recommend:

ONS "What are the vacancy trends in the public sector?":
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... 2019-08-06

and

NAO "The NHS nursing workforce":
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/The-NHS-nursing-workforce-Summary.pdf

Both before the outbreak.
NB Differences between the NHSs and countries of the UK.

Jonathan

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 872
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 10 Jan 2021, 6:44pm

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
landsurfer wrote:My niece is a nurse. She qualified 8 years ago. 2019 she earned £38k ... 2020 she's earned a lot more due to overtime and doing some work in the private sector to support the outsourcing that Covid caused ...
How do i know .... because we discussed it over the xmas period ...

What Band is she and where in the UK is she if you don't mind me asking?
My wife is a Band7 Senior Sister and he basic salary(inc benefits) is £33k.She actually took a pay cut when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago due to differences in modern contracts and the one she signed in the 90s.Now she's a Senior Sister,although her official title is Ward manager,she does less O/T and nights so in real terms earns less than she would as a Sister :|
I personally wouldn't do what she does,with all the responsibility,for her salary!

If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.

Ben@Forest
Posts: 2704
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ben@Forest » 10 Jan 2021, 7:25pm

Syd wrote:If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.


My wife is a Band 7 and has been for a while. She's on nearly £42,000 a year.

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 872
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 10 Jan 2021, 7:29pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Syd wrote:If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.


My wife is a Band 7 and has been for a while. She's on nearly £42,000 a year.

Sounds about right. £44.5k is top of band.

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 11 Jan 2021, 11:07am

Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
landsurfer wrote:My niece is a nurse. She qualified 8 years ago. 2019 she earned £38k ... 2020 she's earned a lot more due to overtime and doing some work in the private sector to support the outsourcing that Covid caused ...
How do i know .... because we discussed it over the xmas period ...

What Band is she and where in the UK is she if you don't mind me asking?
My wife is a Band7 Senior Sister and he basic salary(inc benefits) is £33k.She actually took a pay cut when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago due to differences in modern contracts and the one she signed in the 90s.Now she's a Senior Sister,although her official title is Ward manager,she does less O/T and nights so in real terms earns less than she would as a Sister :|
I personally wouldn't do what she does,with all the responsibility,for her salary!

If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.

She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 872
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 11 Jan 2021, 11:50am

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:What Band is she and where in the UK is she if you don't mind me asking?
My wife is a Band7 Senior Sister and he basic salary(inc benefits) is £33k.She actually took a pay cut when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago due to differences in modern contracts and the one she signed in the 90s.Now she's a Senior Sister,although her official title is Ward manager,she does less O/T and nights so in real terms earns less than she would as a Sister :|
I personally wouldn't do what she does,with all the responsibility,for her salary!

If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.

She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby pete75 » 11 Jan 2021, 2:59pm

Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Syd wrote:If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.

She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.


Ride-sleep-repeat is likely to know far more about his wife's salary and pay grade than any random forum poster.

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 11 Jan 2021, 3:57pm

Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Syd wrote:If you’re wife is a band 7, and has been there for 4 years, then, under AfC, she is on almost £41k basic (£40,484 to be precise). If she’s not then I’d be asking serious questions.

She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.

AFAIK she was on a Trust contract from 1997-2016 when she was promoted to Sister/B6.To accept the position of Sister/B6 she had to change to the AFC contract so it meant a pay cut.When she moved up to Senior Sister/Ward manager/B7 she had a slight increase from Sister/B6 but as I stated earlier nowhere near £41K.
Under her old 1997 contract she might have been paid nearer the £40K mark but under the new AFG she's worse off.One of her friends she trained with is still a Band 5 in Leeds and she earns almost the same as my wife!

I have just had a thought.
My wife went into nursing the old way,full-time on the job training with a Bursary.She is currently studying for a Degree at home as this was also one of the requirements under the new contract.She got the job due to hard work and 20+ years experience so the Degree was allowed to be retrospective.
Maybe this explains the discrepancy?I will ask her when she gets home.I fear I might have jumped the gun a bit here.....

Ben@Forest
Posts: 2704
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Jan 2021, 4:11pm

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:I have just had a thought.
My wife went into nursing the old way,full-time on the job training with a Bursary.She is currently studying for a Degree at home as this was also one of the requirements under the new contract.She got the job due to hard work and 20+ years experience so the Degree was allowed to be retrospective.
Maybe this explains the discrepancy?I will ask her when she gets home. I fear I might have jumped the gun a bit here.....


Doubt it - that's how my wife trained as well. From qualifying as a nurse to getting her degree took ten years (it didn't help moving in that time and therefore a different university which didn't accept all her earned credits). Although getting her degree was seen as necessary thing to be achieved I don't think that in any way affected promotions/increments/pay during working for it.

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 872
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 11 Jan 2021, 4:56pm

pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.


Ride-sleep-repeat is likely to know far more about his wife's salary and pay grade than any random forum poster.

You think so? Random poster? Get over yourself.