Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 11 Jan 2021, 5:00pm

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Syd wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:She has worked for the Trust since 1997.She moved Hospitals in 2008 when the Respiratory ward moved.Her P60 for 2019/20 was just over £35k but she stepped up from Sister to Senior Sister/Ward Manager in January 2020 and her monthly earnings then dropped.Her contract changed when she moved up from Staff Nurse to Sister about 4 years ago.Something to do with Agenda for change that I don't fully understand.
We'll know for definite what she earned when she gets her 20/21 PC60 but she takes home roughly £500 per month less than me and I'm on £41K!
I don't know for sure,but I will ask,but I'm quite sure her Matron doesn't earn £40K!

I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.

AFAIK she was on a Trust contract from 1997-2016 when she was promoted to Sister/B6.To accept the position of Sister/B6 she had to change to the AFC contract so it meant a pay cut.When she moved up to Senior Sister/Ward manager/B7 she had a slight increase from Sister/B6 but as I stated earlier nowhere near £41K.
Under her old 1997 contract she might have been paid nearer the £40K mark but under the new AFG she's worse off.One of her friends she trained with is still a Band 5 in Leeds and she earns almost the same as my wife!

I have just had a thought.
My wife went into nursing the old way,full-time on the job training with a Bursary.She is currently studying for a Degree at home as this was also one of the requirements under the new contract.She got the job due to hard work and 20+ years experience so the Degree was allowed to be retrospective.
Maybe this explains the discrepancy?I will ask her when she gets home.I fear I might have jumped the gun a bit here.....

AfC brought about benefits to the vast majority of staff when it was implemented. Unfortunately it got eroded by many years of a pay freeze but anyone on a B7 AfC contract gets paid in line with national agreements. The details are readily available in the public domain.

pete75
Posts: 13646
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby pete75 » 11 Jan 2021, 5:22pm

Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:I would suggest she has been placed on a Trust contact and not an Agenda for Change one.

She can be a sister, on a trust contract and earn £33k or a Band 7 and earn £41k. What she cannot be is a B7 sister earning £33k.

If she’s on a trust contact as a Sister then that is ridiculous.


Ride-sleep-repeat is likely to know far more about his wife's salary and pay grade than any random forum poster.

You think so? Random poster? Get over yourself.


Yep. He's spoken to her about it. I'm absolutely certain he knows more about her salary than you do.

What the hell does get over yourself mean?

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Jdsk » 11 Jan 2021, 5:26pm

Please can we all pause until Ride-sleep-repeat has a chance to report back.

I haven't seen any errors in Syd's statements about AfC pay bands.

Thanks, everybody

Jonathan

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 11 Jan 2021, 5:32pm

pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat is likely to know far more about his wife's salary and pay grade than any random forum poster.

You think so? Random poster? Get over yourself.


Yep. He's spoken to her about it etc. Nothing of the random posters here have.

Have you read his latest post?

She cannot be a full time Band 7 staff member for any NHS Trust and paid the salary claimed without having some stonkingly large salary sacrifice payment. Fact.

She can be a Senior Sister,in name, on some vastly inferior trust contract, and paid the salary described. If that’s the case she needs to look for a new employer.

It is NOT possible to be a full time B7 and paid such a low salary.

If Mrs Syd told me what ride-sleep-repeat is being told I would be asking serious questions.

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 11 Jan 2021, 8:00pm

Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:You think so? Random poster? Get over yourself.


Yep. He's spoken to her about it etc. Nothing of the random posters here have.

Have you read his latest post?

She cannot be a full time Band 7 staff member for any NHS Trust and paid the salary claimed without having some stonkingly large salary sacrifice payment. Fact.

She can be a Senior Sister,in name, on some vastly inferior trust contract, and paid the salary described. If that’s the case she needs to look for a new employer.

It is NOT possible to be a full time B7 and paid such a low salary.

If Mrs Syd told me what ride-sleep-repeat is being told I would be asking serious questions.


Woah!
Hang on a minute Syd!Fact this fact that!
I know exactly what Band she is,we've been together a quarter of a Century!
She is not paid anywhere near £41K I know this for a fact.She's due in shortly I'll put it to her that's if she's not to pi$$ed off from being short staffed(again) on a Covid Ward in one of Englands largest cities.
I'll put it to her that:-
1.Not a band 7
2.MUST be on at least £41K

Would you explain random poster please?

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 11 Jan 2021, 8:50pm

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Yep. He's spoken to her about it etc. Nothing of the random posters here have.

Have you read his latest post?

She cannot be a full time Band 7 staff member for any NHS Trust and paid the salary claimed without having some stonkingly large salary sacrifice payment. Fact.

She can be a Senior Sister,in name, on some vastly inferior trust contract, and paid the salary described. If that’s the case she needs to look for a new employer.

It is NOT possible to be a full time B7 and paid such a low salary.

If Mrs Syd told me what ride-sleep-repeat is being told I would be asking serious questions.


Woah!
Hang on a minute Syd!Fact this fact that!
I know exactly what Band she is,we've been together a quarter of a Century!
She is not paid anywhere near £41K I know this for a fact.She's due in shortly I'll put it to her that's if she's not to pi$$ed off from being short staffed(again) on a Covid Ward in one of Englands largest cities.
I'll put it to her that:-
1.Not a band 7
2.MUST be on at least £41K

Would you explain random poster please?

All pay bands, from 1 through to 9, are laid out under Agenda for Change terms and conditions. A Band 7 is a Band 7 and it paid as a Band 7. Its that simple.

On point 2 you say she has been in post 4 years. That, on a Band 7 salary, would place her on £40,894 per annum.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensio ... les/annual

If she is a Band 7 and not being paid that then she’s either not a Band 7 in the true sense, i.e. AfC, or she’s being screwed over big time by her employer.

Mrs Syd is a Band 6 and is on £39,169. As I said previously Scotland is paid 1% more than England. This is due to a 1% pay rise a number of years ago being consolidated in Scotland but not in England.

I line manage 35 staff from Band 3 to Band 8a and know the AfC T&Cs rather well.

As for ‘random poster’ I did not bring that up.

millimole
Posts: 655
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby millimole » 11 Jan 2021, 9:49pm

Syd wrote:If she is a Band 7 and not being paid that then she’s either not a Band 7 in the true sense, i.e. AfC, or she’s being screwed over big time by her employer.

There's two possibilities that I see for the discrepancy, which I believe is recounted honestly:
She's not on full time hours
or
The figure we are talking about is not the one before ALL deductions
(My daughter fell into that trap - Band 6 - she described her pay as being after NI, Tax, and her salary sacrifice for a car)

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 12 Jan 2021, 12:15am

Syd wrote:On point 2 you say she has been in post 4 years. That, on a Band 7 salary, would place her on £40,894 per annum.
If she is a Band 7 and not being paid that then she’s either not a Band 7 in the true sense, i.e. AfC, or she’s being screwed over big time by her employer.
I line manage 35 staff from Band 3 to Band 8a and know the AfC T&Cs rather well.

Right let's clarify this:-
She went from Band 5(Senior Staff Nurse) to Band 6(Sister) in 2016 following a 12 month secondment.
She was then promoted from Band 6(Sister) to Band 7(Senior Sister/Ward Manager)in January 2020.
She left the terms of her original Trust contract,which started in 1997(after a 3 year training period) in 2016 when she had to sign a new AFG contract or she could not take the Band 6.
So she has been a Band 7 since 2020 but was a Band 6 since 2016 under her new terms(AFG)
She is on a full time contract and the figures are gross pay not net pay.

Now to get personal.Her average take home salary is around £2100.My average take home pay is around £2700.My basic Salary,which includes all shift allowances is £41k.We both pay into pensions.I pay a fair bit more than her but it's just to show we're on an even keel with what is deducted.

I would have posted earlier but she was due home at around 20:00 but due to staff shortages/no shows she didn't get home until almost 22:00 as she was trying to rustle up replacements from nowhere.She reluctantly left the Ward 1 nurse and 3 support workers short,she'd done another 14hr shift so I think she was well within her rights to do so.She's back a 07:00 tomorrow but being in the NHS Syd I'm sure you know what it's like.

I'm beginning to think either my honesty or sanity is being questioned here so below are her ID badge(s).I've blanked out her Surname and photo.
The ID on the left his her old Sisters ID.Her Band 7 ID has not appeared yet due to some pandemic!

Image

I think asking her for her payslip might get me assigned to the settee under the current circumstances!

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 12 Jan 2021, 6:17am

Hi ride-sleep-repeat. I am not doubting what you are saying. There is however something seriously odd going on here.

Mrs Syd is a Band 6, top of scale, and her take home pay is just over £2,300. I am also dealing with a Band 7 in my team, for reasons I can’t go into. They are also top of band and take home pay is a little over £2,600.

You wife should be somewhere in the middle (there in no overlap in pay scales like there has been in the past) and needs to question that if she is not, which seems to be the case.

Whilst gross pay in Scotland is %1 higher income tax is also %1 higher and therefore has a slightly negative effect.

EDIT: A quick look at current vacancies for the employer in question show they are paying AfC salaries. E.g this Band 6 Sister/ Charge Nurse post. https://beta.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/joba ... 90-21-7800 I can see no current B7 adverts for comparison.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 5747
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Jan 2021, 7:45am

landsurfer wrote:£56K a year combined take home pay


I don't resent their money which is roughly similar to classroom teachers but I must say this is hardly breadline stuff where people need to visit foodbanks to survive.

When you say "take home" do you really mean take home ie after taxes, NIC, pension etc?
John

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 12 Jan 2021, 9:16am

Oldjohnw wrote:When you say "take home" do you really mean take home ie after taxes, NIC, pension etc?

Yes, in this context it means exactly that. It’s what will arrive in the recipients bank account each month.

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 12 Jan 2021, 10:02am

@Syd.
I think Mrs R-S-R needs to have a conversation with her superiors.Something is obviously amiss.Even with Covid a mistake,or oversight,like this shouldn't happen.That's assuming it is a mistake/oversight!

pwa
Posts: 13648
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby pwa » 12 Jan 2021, 10:30am

Oldjohnw wrote:
landsurfer wrote:£56K a year combined take home pay


I don't resent their money which is roughly similar to classroom teachers but I must say this is hardly breadline stuff where people need to visit foodbanks to survive.

When you say "take home" do you really mean take home ie after taxes, NIC, pension etc?

My wife has been teaching for thirty years and has never got near £56k, even as a head of department. And the higher paid roles have been disappearing, meaning that she has effectively been demoted like many of her colleagues, resulting in shrinking pay. £40k is more like it these days.

Nursing staff are generally £30k or less, unless they have risen well up the ladder.

My own job puts me on the front line, exposed to potentially infected members of the public, and a lot of the people I come into contact with appreciate that and thank me. Face to face. Which is nice. If you don't clap, fine, but it is good to show some appreciation to key workers who keep the wheels rolling, however you do it. It does make them feel that they are not being taken for granted.

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 871
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby Syd » 12 Jan 2021, 10:38am

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:@Syd.
I think Mrs R-S-R needs to have a conversation with her superiors.Something is obviously amiss.Even with Covid a mistake,or oversight,like this shouldn't happen.That's assuming it is a mistake/oversight!

PM sent. If you need further info happy to help.

francovendee
Posts: 1650
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Did you clap this time round - or last time?

Postby francovendee » 12 Jan 2021, 10:44am

Slightly off topic but the UK was short of nurses before the onset of this pandemic and I wonder if the recruitment of nurses will get a boost from the scenes in the hospitals?
It may of course have the reverse effect.