When is remoaning not remoaning?!

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simonineaston
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When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby simonineaston » 18 Jan 2021, 9:59pm

The first evidence is starting to come in that shows how under-prepared we were for the exit - and indeed, unless things swivel round 180 degrees & change a lot for the better, may show that it was a disasterous decision, after-all.
Having got heartily sick of being framed as a "remainer", at what stage is it OK for anyone with any sense to begin to carefully analyse each and every cock-up, with a view to improving the lot of the poor poor folk, who having been well & truly shafted by the leave crew, are trying to save their businesses which, far from blooming under the new arrangements, are worse off than before.
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

Pebble
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby Pebble » 18 Jan 2021, 11:20pm

I don't think the average supporter of brexit expected it to be all roses from day one, some sectors were always going to take a hit. I think we have to give it at least five years (and may be 5 years after the pandemic is over) before we will see what the outcome is. I'm not hopeful though with the current gov, they just seem to blunder along.

I must add I am not a supporter of brexit, with little to gain and a lot to loose I have always thought it a rather stupid risk to take. but so far so good, we seem to have got a better deal than I thought we would, and the roof hasn't caved in just yet.

pwa
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2021, 11:40pm

Just what the world needs right now: Another Brexit thread. Enjoy!

Ben@Forest
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby Ben@Forest » 19 Jan 2021, 8:16am

Re: the seafood debacle l think Johnson has a point about the lack of restaurant trade. Here deer stalkers are not shooting wild deer because the principal market - restaurants - has all but disappeared.

The venison you see in shops is farmed venison, cheaper and easier to produce to a certain standard; it is restaurants who want to sell locally sourced wild deer because it looks distinctive on the menu - and good wild venison is much better than farmed, but the quality can be variable. And not shooting deer is not good for growing trees (or crops).

Oldjohnw
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Jan 2021, 8:44am

S fish transporter fairly close to me - DR Collin of Eyemouth (his lorries feature in news programmes) normally shift two lorries a day to the continent. Hey haven't sold a single box this year. Fishermen have lost their work at the change of a date.

Contrary to what Al and others state, we don't eat much of our caught fish here: we export it and have to import the fish we eat.

Further, many Scottish trawlers are landing their fish in Denmark now.
John

kwackers
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby kwackers » 19 Jan 2021, 9:23am

Ben@Forest wrote:And not shooting deer is not good for growing trees (or crops).

Need some apex predators.

Think it was Yellowstone where they reintroduced wolves and the changes to the landscape where astounding, all the hassle of trying to manage a unbalanced eco system pretty much vanished overnight.

reohn2
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jan 2021, 9:36am

When Brexit supporters can point out where the good of leaving the EU is better than the losses I'll listen,until then I'll remain very very sceptical.
BTW Brexit supporters,don't for one minure try and sell me the 'sovereignty' deal,it's not holding water and never has done.

From what I've read and head it seems the one's taking the biggest hit in all this mess are the small businesses and the poor.As for fishing,that's going like a boat holed 'neath the waterline.
NI,well?
Haulage?

We've had four years to make leaving smooth and sort out the best deal for the country,is this it?
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merseymouth
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby merseymouth » 19 Jan 2021, 9:40am

Morning, As I see it a dedicated Remainer will continue to be a "remainer" until they're in their coffin, and even then they'll have a gripe on the headstone!
If the E.U. had continued on as the E.E.C. in an expanded form then many who voted to leave would have been perfectly happy to remain as a working member, simple!
But the centralized, super state was not acceptable! Freedom of action within an alliance yes, blind subservience no thank you. MM

kwackers
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby kwackers » 19 Jan 2021, 9:49am

merseymouth wrote:Morning, As I see it a dedicated Remainer will continue to be a "remainer" until they're in their coffin, and even then they'll have a gripe on the headstone!
If the E.U. had continued on as the E.E.C. in an expanded form then many who voted to leave would have been perfectly happy to remain as a working member, simple!
But the centralized, super state was not acceptable! Freedom of action within an alliance yes, blind subservience no thank you. MM

You're the member of a small country in a world of superpower trading blocks. Subservience is your middle name.
Trade deals are all about giving up some sovereignty in return for trade.

We've just signed a deal we have no say over whereas prior we did have a say.
So you might "think" you're now free but you're actually less free.
The big boys have your pants down and you can dress it up any way you like but free you're most definitely not.

Ben@Forest
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby Ben@Forest » 19 Jan 2021, 9:59am

kwackers wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:And not shooting deer is not good for growing trees (or crops).

Need some apex predators.

Think it was Yellowstone where they reintroduced wolves and the changes to the landscape where astounding, all the hassle of trying to manage a unbalanced eco system pretty much vanished overnight.


We are lacking an apex predator, and wolves would be great. But wolf packs range widely and, according to at least one academic paper l read, if we introduced wolves to a remote part of Northern Scotland and then left them be they'd be knocking over bins in Glasgow suburbs within about 15 years. And not many Glaswegians would fancy that - but if wolves are to control deer we need them everywhere from Truro to Inverness.

It's all about scale of course, Yellowstone on its own is about 7% of the size of England. If we had a National Park that big and that unpopulated....

kwackers
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby kwackers » 19 Jan 2021, 10:04am

Ben@Forest wrote:It's all about scale of course, Yellowstone on its own is about 7% of the size of England. If we had a National Park that big and that unpopulated....

Throw in some lions then and the population aspect will take care of itself... ;)

Psamathe
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby Psamathe » 19 Jan 2021, 10:13am

Although a Remainer I have to point out that apparently the Scottish fish issues can be solved easily if the fishermen just fill in the right forms correctly (according to Johnson). Similarly, food shipments to Northern Ireland would go straight forward if shippers just did what they were told and put the paperwork in the bin (as instructed by our PM himself) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NFfUOJwDE.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/johnson-tells-northern-ireland-businesses-to-bin-customs-forms-38674258.html wrote:Johnson tells Northern Ireland businesses to ‘bin’ customs forms
Boris Johnson told supporters there would be ‘no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind’ on goods crossing the Irish sea after Brexit.


Of course it's more complex if you fill-in and hand-in forms as officials have to read and check them. Just bin them and there is nothing for them to check (or does this just illustrate the limited understanding our PM has of such matters)

Or was he yet again lying and telling porkies and does he do anything else and does he even know the difference any more.

Ian

reohn2
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jan 2021, 10:13am

merseymouth wrote:Morning, As I see it a dedicated Remainer will continue to be a "remainer" until they're in their coffin, and even then they'll have a gripe on the headstone!.....

Not this one.
If I can be proved wrong that the whole country and not just bits of it,benefit from leaving,you and all the other Brexit supporters will have my apology.

But make no mistake,this bunch of incompetents will try to blame the virus and the EU when everything goes mammory glands skyward!

Currently small ex/import businesses and the fishing industry(you know the industry that all the fuss was about)are teetering on collapse and we're less than three weeks into this.
Last edited by reohn2 on 19 Jan 2021, 10:20am, edited 1 time in total.
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PH
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby PH » 19 Jan 2021, 10:20am

It isn't a human trait to admit you were wrong, and it's always easy to find alternative explanations for any evidence presented. The best we can hope for is that it's fairly evaluated by those who come after and have no reason for bias. We're a long way from that, and as the Labour leader admitted yesterday, any commitment to renegotiate is unrealistic, despite that being the opposite to what he'd said when campaigning for the position. This is where we are, wherever we end up it's going to be bumpy, hold tight.

kwackers
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Re: When is remoaning not remoaning?!

Postby kwackers » 19 Jan 2021, 10:22am

If anyone is in any doubt, pick a random item from around you, pretend you want to export 'them' and go and fill in the customs form.
Once you've been trying to do that for a bit you should be able to see why your item probably won't make it through customs, at least on its first try.

There was a good reason why we junked all that crap decades ago but like most stuff the past got rosier with time and we forgot.
Of course the experts told us what would happen but it turns out your average member of the public considers themselves an expert on everything these days because "memes".