Agree: verbal communication is different to written and clear and intelligible English is the aim.tatanab wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 3:43pm I agree that colloquial or regional terms (as in dialect) are fine in verbal conversation. In fact I love to hear regional accents and dialects.
But - if you are writing on a forum and wish to be understood, then understandable English is a requirement. A few people here drop in regional dialect terms that mean precisely nothing to me. Similarly, home made abbreviations. Of course this cannot apply to contributors for whom English is not their first language.
For some years I used to compile technical documents for an international readership. Would anything but plain and simple English have worked?
More better grammer and speeling please.
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Why should it be a "good job we've never met"? I thought I said in my post that:markjohnobrien wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 11:06amGood job we’ve never met as I have a strong regional East Midlands accent (which I’m proud of )
Perhaps I should use bold and italic more often...
I will concede, however, that as I grow older and somewhat more hard-of-hearing, I occasionally find understanding people with strong accents difficult - especially on the phone (I've just bought myself an amplified landline phone, which should help. Hearing aids didn't). Deafness doesn't discriminate between the different social classes!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Yes, I prefer the people who communicate using pictures.markjohnobrien wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 11:10amAgree: verbal communication is different to written and clear and intelligible English is the aim.tatanab wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 3:43pm I agree that colloquial or regional terms (as in dialect) are fine in verbal conversation. In fact I love to hear regional accents and dialects.
But - if you are writing on a forum and wish to be understood, then understandable English is a requirement. A few people here drop in regional dialect terms that mean precisely nothing to me. Similarly, home made abbreviations. Of course this cannot apply to contributors for whom English is not their first language.
For some years I used to compile technical documents for an international readership. Would anything but plain and simple English have worked?
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
; - )
Jonathan
Jonathan
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Pictures!
I was fascinated, years ago, by an account of the homophone problem in Chinese.
Chinese has apparently "run out" of words.
It has quite a reduced phonetic alphabet.
So the language is full of homophones.
But importantly the written word is pictorial. Symbols.
The account was as follows:-
Two Chinese were having breakfast together. Reading the news from their respective newspapers.
One party decides an item is worth recounting to the other.
The problem is there's no context in a situation like this.
He is effectively reading "from scratch", it could be about almost anything.
Anyway, having got his interlocutors attention, off he goes reading, from his paper, the item he felt worthy of sharing.
He realizes when he gets to the first homophone that there is a potential confusion.
So he makes, in the air in front of him (presumably mirror image) the pictorial symbol for the word and hence the meaning he wishes to convey!
Which conveniently and cleverly resolves the ambiguity.
And important context is achieved.
.
I was fascinated, years ago, by an account of the homophone problem in Chinese.
Chinese has apparently "run out" of words.
It has quite a reduced phonetic alphabet.
So the language is full of homophones.
But importantly the written word is pictorial. Symbols.
The account was as follows:-
Two Chinese were having breakfast together. Reading the news from their respective newspapers.
One party decides an item is worth recounting to the other.
The problem is there's no context in a situation like this.
He is effectively reading "from scratch", it could be about almost anything.
Anyway, having got his interlocutors attention, off he goes reading, from his paper, the item he felt worthy of sharing.
He realizes when he gets to the first homophone that there is a potential confusion.
So he makes, in the air in front of him (presumably mirror image) the pictorial symbol for the word and hence the meaning he wishes to convey!
Which conveniently and cleverly resolves the ambiguity.
And important context is achieved.
.
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Chinese doesn't have a native alphabet.PDQ Mobile wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 8:38pmI was fascinated, years ago, by an account of the homophone problem in Chinese.
Chinese has apparently "run out" of words.
It has quite a reduced phonetic alphabet.
Jonathan
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Whatever a "native" alphabet is?
Did I say native?
(I think it referred to Manadarin Chinese but don't quote me.)
But it has relatively few sounds.
If I remember correctly it has a reduced consonant inventory.
Which gives rise to lots of homophomes.
Actually I thought the little story might interest you particularly.
For it contains linguistic insights.
Did I say native?
(I think it referred to Manadarin Chinese but don't quote me.)
But it has relatively few sounds.
If I remember correctly it has a reduced consonant inventory.
Which gives rise to lots of homophomes.
Actually I thought the little story might interest you particularly.
For it contains linguistic insights.
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
I put the "native" in there to avoid someone confusing the issue by mentioning pinyin. (Native) Chinese has a script but not an alphabet.
Mandarin and common English have about the same number of consonant phonemes, often counted as 19 and 24 respectively.
That's not why there are so many homophones.
Jonathan
Mandarin and common English have about the same number of consonant phonemes, often counted as 19 and 24 respectively.
That's not why there are so many homophones.
Jonathan
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
But there are lots of homophones, yes?Jdsk wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 9:00pm I put the "native" in there to avoid someone confusing the issue by mentioning pinyin. (Native) Chinese has a script but not an alphabet.
Mandarin and common English have about the same number of consonant phonemes, often counted as 19 and 24 respectively.
That's not why there are so many homophones.
Jonathan
And less consonants gives rise to less phonetic combinations surely?
The story is about how pictures or symbols have certain advantages over a phonetic alphabet.
How they can resolve certain issues.
It fascinated me when I read it.
Just lighthearted , and I thought someone might find it mildly interesting.
Must go and shut the chickens up.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 4 Apr 2021, 9:10pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone ... in_Chinese
eg "Homophonic puns in Standard Chinese"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophoni ... rd_Chinese
But as that says:
"However, modern Chinese words average about two syllables, so the high rate of syllable homophony does not cause a problem for communication."
Jonathan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone ... in_Chinese
eg "Homophonic puns in Standard Chinese"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophoni ... rd_Chinese
But as that says:
"However, modern Chinese words average about two syllables, so the high rate of syllable homophony does not cause a problem for communication."
Jonathan
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Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Wiki is no longer available to me.Jdsk wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 9:08pm Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophone ... in_Chinese
eg "Homophonic puns in Standard Chinese"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophoni ... rd_Chinese
But as that says:
"However, modern Chinese words average about two syllables, so the high rate of syllable homophony does not cause a problem for communication."
Jonathan
I am a security risk apparently!
There is no doubt that context is very important in communication.
Really the story is about context or rather the lack of it.
Context is surprisingly important in verbal communication.
But the potential confusion arises through lots of homophones and lack of context.
That's what I read.
I understood it and it's significance immediately.
Because it is something we all experience from time to time.
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Chinese full of homophones? Indeed! This is a famous example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
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- Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Blimey!661-Pete wrote: ↑4 Apr 2021, 10:35pm Chinese full of homophones? Indeed! This is a famous example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4
No wonder they stuck with pictorial symbols.
Re: More better grammer and speeling please.
Is that literally Wooossshhh!!! ?
Jonathan
Jonathan