I don't like living in England....

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PDQ Mobile
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by PDQ Mobile »

I have had home grown supplies of greens to the table throughout the winter in sunny(ha!) N Wales.

I had beautiful organic full "hearted" salad (Little Gem), unheated polytunnel grown, on the table for the second week in April (April WAS sunny, March quite warm.)

Though most people will buy cheaper intensively grown stuff.
For I could not compete, either in quantity or price.
That's always the rub in things small scale, green and organic.

Still, it's called "money where mouth is",
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Egyptian potatoes are grown using water from artesian wells and the water table is slowly running out.

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Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

661-Pete wrote: 15 May 2021, 4:28pm
Tangled Metal wrote: 15 May 2021, 3:51pm Your UK based veg box supplier imports from the EU instead of using seasonal UK veg? Or have I got that wrong?

It's just that our local veg box supplies all UK stuff. I thought that was the whole point of those suppliers.
You've got it almost right. They supply imports from the EU as well as seasonal UK veg.

The point being, as I already said, that they claim it's more energy efficient growing veg in the open, or under unheated polytunnels, and shipping it by lorry to UK, than growing same veg. in UK under heated polytunnels. The lorry journey emits less CO2 than the heaters.

I have no reason to doubt that claim - they've done the arithmetic!
But what's wrong with just selling the stuff that grows in the UK and ready to be picked when n you sell it? Basically veg boxes round here are seasonal and grown outside of heated greenhouses. Best of all? Low mileage and low energy input.

I live just over an hour from prime market gardening area such as Banks, Southport and towards Ormskirk. I live 2 miles from a Booths supermarket that buys seasonal veg from market gardeners in that area to supply in all their stores. It's was good as you get in terms of comparing with the veg box schemes supplying only local and seasonal items. I am very lucky I guess.

However I grew up from 3 to 13yo right nearby that growing area. There were two routes into the nearest town and supermarket. One way my dad preferred to drive but coming back with a car full of shopping we would go the other way and stop at s farm shop on the way. You could buy large sacks if carrots for ridiculously low price. They made more even with that cheap price. It was amazing to see what they grew without heated greenhouses, just the odd polytunnel. Now that's really lucky. Not everyone can live in areas so perfect for growing seasonal veg. BTW Ormskirk potatoes are among the best. Grown in soil so rich in nutrients it is actually black. Further west there's reclaimed land that's even richer in nutrients. All flat land, good sunlight, mild coastal microclimate , etc. All good growing conditions.
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

Salad greens out of season, I don't like them in season. I've been put off as a kid by limp lettuce. Visits to my grandparents in Southampton meant homegrown for pretty much everything. Their tomatoes both greenhouse and outdoors grown were amazing taste. The only issue was the skins being tougher than shop bought but they tasted of tomato not watery and bland like even the best supermarket ones tend to be. He also bartered with excess veg at the nearest market. I think he rarely bought bacon and often got nice beef roasts for free in exchange for veg he'd not get through anyway. It be would be nice to have that but warm Southampton with a big garden is not anywhere close to what I have to grow in. We're planning on doing a bit though. Homegrown stuff is special.
pwa
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by pwa »

I once asked a TV garden expert for a tip on the best tomatoes for flavour, expecting him to recommend a variety, and his answer was any tomato that is picked fully ripe. Doing that means practically no shelf life, so it means growing your own and going out to the greenhouse to get a couple of tomatoes you intend using right now.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Cyril Haearn »

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Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

A few years ago I was in Morrison’s supermarket in the asparagus season and could only find asparagus flown halfway around the world.

I asked the greengrocery manager if he had British asparagus. His reply:

“I didn’t know that they grew it here”.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

People tend to shop in supermarkets for reasons which have led to the dominance of supermarkets. Put another way, supermarkets have thrived by giving the majority of their customers what they want.
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661-Pete
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by 661-Pete »

Should explain that Riverford do a 'British only' box for those who insist. But they've seen the benefit of diversifying to gather a broader customer base (they also supply organic meat boxes which are of no interest to us).

The main factor for us is that the produce is organic. Even though we top up with veg. from the supermarket that's not organic.

All right, call me a hypocrite....
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Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

thirdcrank wrote: 16 May 2021, 9:10am People tend to shop in supermarkets for reasons which have led to the dominance of supermarkets. Put another way, supermarkets have thrived by giving the majority of their customers what they want.
Until recently we had no choice here. There is still no greengrocer in town. A once a week market stall only. We have had a veg box for a number of years but that is not a choice available to everyone: either it doesn’t exist or the cost is too great.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Oldjohnw wrote: 16 May 2021, 8:59am A few years ago I was in Morrison’s supermarket in the asparagus season and could only find asparagus flown halfway around the world.

I asked the greengrocery manager if he had British asparagus. His reply:

“I didn’t know that they grew it here”.
We had a local asparagus grower seller small time.
That must of been about 10 years ago it's now a school.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by PDQ Mobile »

There are some things that are hard or impossible to grow in the UK climate, year round, without very large investment in both infrastructure and large energy input.
That affects price.
Tomatoes and out of season early potatoes amongst them.
Both thrive on high sunlight.
Without heat fresh UK tomatoes are only available from say early July though to the first hard frosts of November.

There are other tender and short season subjects too.

Spain has the advantage here. Higher sunshine hours etc, and given the channel tunnel no ferry crossing.

Spain grows out of season veg for a much larger population than just the UK of course.

There is no reason, other than being better organized, that much of that produce could not be transported by electric train. Some of it already is.
Though clearly a targeted 'source to point of sale' journey by large lorry, has many advantages in terms of handling and consequent freshness.

Personally I will buy EU out of season once in a while, but then I like the EU and its pretty decent regulation of food standards.

UK "big agri business" has its many problems too.
Even humble hill based sheep farming.
Cost drives big scale, and big scale almost always results in some environmental downsides.
Though can be energy efficient.

I see the myriad 4x4s transporting single persons daily on commutes of many miles to do some sort of (from my perspective) unnecessary hi tech internet button pushing and I see the transport of food and other essentials as by far the lesser problem.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by [XAP]Bob »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 16 May 2021, 9:57am
I see the myriad 4x4s transporting single persons daily on commutes of many miles to do some sort of (from my perspective) unnecessary hi tech internet button pushing and I see the transport of food and other essentials as by far the lesser problem.
As a high tech team internet button pusher... would you rather we didn’t ensure that essential medical equipment was kept online?
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 16 May 2021, 9:51am Hi,
Oldjohnw wrote: 16 May 2021, 8:59am A few years ago I was in Morrison’s supermarket in the asparagus season and could only find asparagus flown halfway around the world.

I asked the greengrocery manager if he had British asparagus. His reply:

“I didn’t know that they grew it here”.
We had a local asparagus grower seller small time.
That must of been about 10 years ago it's now a school.
At the time I am writing of there were tons of British asparagus available.
John
PDQ Mobile
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by PDQ Mobile »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 16 May 2021, 10:23am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 16 May 2021, 9:57am
I see the myriad 4x4s transporting single persons daily on commutes of many miles to do some sort of (from my perspective) unnecessary hi tech internet button pushing and I see the transport of food and other essentials as by far the lesser problem.
As a high tech team internet button pusher... would you rather we didn’t ensure that essential medical equipment was kept online?
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Food industry is undervalued IMV.
It's often tough, dirty and poorly paid.

Yet about as vital as any.
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