I don't like living in England....

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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:29pm Trots is my term for the extreme left wing people who were once in banned organisations like the Militant Tendency and were readmitted under Corbyn and are now often members of Momentum.

Al
So do you think Corbyn is also a trot?
markjohnobrien
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:42pm
al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:29pm Trots is my term for the extreme left wing people who were once in banned organisations like the Militant Tendency and were readmitted under Corbyn and are now often members of Momentum.

Al
So do you think Corbyn is also a trot?
No: far worse.
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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

markjohnobrien wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:43pm
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:42pm
al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:29pm Trots is my term for the extreme left wing people who were once in banned organisations like the Militant Tendency and were readmitted under Corbyn and are now often members of Momentum.

Al
So do you think Corbyn is also a trot?
No: far worse.
Explain.
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Corbyn has always been the cheerleader of the looney left. Its so left it will never have any real power, thus its called the looney left because its all principle and will never be anything else.

Al
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thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

The turnout at Hartlepool was apparently some 42%

The typical local election turnout in England seems to be in the order of 25%.

None of that's a ringing endorsement for anybody. Politicians like to comfort themselves with a view that it's voter apathy and that that amounts to a sort of satisfaction but they don't know how much is antipathy.
markjohnobrien
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:49pm
markjohnobrien wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:43pm
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:42pm
So do you think Corbyn is also a trot?
No: far worse.
Explain.
The man was a traitor: friends to Hamas; Hezbollah; IRA; Iran and an enemy to Britain and the West:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/je ... in-labour/

“Yet, for many reasons, Corbyn is uniquely unsuitable to be prime minister. This is someone who accepted money from Iran to present on the government-affiliated channel Press TV and who invited Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn, both convicted of activity connected to the Irish Republican Army, to Parliament just two weeks after the IRA had killed five people and almost assassinated the British prime minister in the 1984 Brighton bombing.

Then, there is his long-held contempt for NATO and his admiration of far-left revolutionaries such as Fidel Castro and Hugo Chávez (reflected in the advisors and political allies closest to him, who include a self-identified Marxist, a decades-long member of the British Communist Party, and a defender of Joseph Stalin).

Just as disqualifying—though less remarked upon—is Corbyn’s attitude toward Islamist extremism. Take the most egregious example: the Islamic State. Corbyn does not long for the creation of a caliphate or imposition of sharia. However, he can only bring himself to condemn the Islamic State if, in the same breath, he lambasts what he sees as the other side of the coin: Western imperialists. Corbyn sees such a moral equivalency between Islamist terrorist groups and Western governments that he cannot condemn the former without pointing to the flaws of the latter.

For groups regarded as less extreme than al Qaeda and the Islamic State, Corbyn has been less restrained—and often a vocal backer. In a 2009 speech in London, where he was addressing the Stop the War Coalition, Corbyn famously described Hamas and Hezbollah as his “friends.” He now says he regrets that statement, yet he has been friendly with those in Hamas’s orbit throughout his political life.
In a 2009 speech in London, where he was addressing the Stop the War Coalition, Corbyn famously described Hamas and Hezbollah as his “friends.”

For example, he attended a 2012 conference in Qatar featuring Palestinian militants recently released by Israel in exchange for a captured soldier. Two of those speakers were Abdul Aziz Umar, convicted in Israel for his role in a 2003 suicide bombing in Jerusalem that killed seven people, and Husam Badran, a former head of Hamas’s military operations who had planned suicide bombings that killed more than 100 people. Corbyn found their contributions “fascinating and electrifying.”


Just a small example of his contempt for Britain and the West and his love of tyranny.

He couldn’t even condemn the Putin poisoning in Salisbury: contemptible views.
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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:59pm Corbyn has always been the cheerleader of the looney left. Its so left it will never have any real power, thus its called the looney left because its all principle and will never be anything else.
Al
He's definitely left but I would go so far as to label him 'looney left'.
I wouldn't go so far as to call Johnson 'far right' either.
But given the choice between the two Corbyn would get my vote everytime.
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Ride-sleep-repeat
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

markjohnobrien wrote: 8 May 2021, 3:09pm
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:49pm
markjohnobrien wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:43pm No: far worse.
Explain.
The man was a traitor: friends to Hamas; Hezbollah; IRA; Iran and an enemy to Britain and the West:
Do you really believe Corbyn is the only politician to have links to those groups and others?I mean really?Do you not think it a bit strange how all the accusations went quiet as soon a he wasn't in opposition?It really surprises me just how many people were taken in by it.
Traitor,enemy to Britain and the West :lol: :lol: :lol:

He had principles,was vilified for it because the Tories were scared of the threat he posed to them.Now he's no longer a threat they don't seem too worried about his alleged past.

I didn't agree with many of the things he said but respect the man for standing by his principles.
Something I'm afraid I cannot say about the current lunatic in No10.
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

The comments over his connections matter less when he's missing in the Labour front bench and especially so when he didn't have the labour whip. Nonentities don't matter so much politically.

A lot of corbyns issues arise from the more left wing political obsessions. Nuclear disarmament, Western imperialism (nothing to say on Eastern imperialism) and ending capitalism. You can add in Palestinian issue and South American plus Cuban socialism. Basically they look to others for role models and causes. They try to impose their views on people more than other parties and political positions on the spectrum, apart from the far right perhaps but we've never had the far right was close to the power centre of a party for a very long time. That's just my opinion. It's why I think a lot of England can't vote for labour still. They see people with Corbyn's views and outlooks still in Labour positions of influence. The day big Len is no longer listened to by Labour elites and apparatus of power is the day Labour stands a chance.

BTW I am actually proud of all Northern constituencies who have switched from Labour to anyone else. It marks the change from voting for a colour rosette. Hopefully Tory areas will stop voting for a blue rosette on a dust bin too! It's something to learn from IMHO.

I'm looking forward to next GE. I get to waste my vote on a locally respected constituency MP. Before our move I had the choice of Labour Central office appointed London party official or a pathetic Tory yes man who had no respect or care for his constituents. However the new constituency switched from Tory to libdem15 years ago or so.

If you haven't got any good options from the two main parties the best you can do is vote for someone who actually works for their constituents not just pay lip service to them in order to get into Westminster. I know a fair few people who moved into this area who started voting in this way. Lifelong Tory and Labour supporters going libdem because there's no good reason to vote for their old party.
pwa
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by pwa »

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote: 8 May 2021, 3:14pm
al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:59pm Corbyn has always been the cheerleader of the looney left. Its so left it will never have any real power, thus its called the looney left because its all principle and will never be anything else.
Al
He's definitely left but I would go so far as to label him 'looney left'.
I wouldn't go so far as to call Johnson 'far right' either.
But given the choice between the two Corbyn would get my vote everytime.
At the General Election I was so disgusted at having to choose between putting either of them in power, neither being fit for the job, that I refused to vote at all. I would consider voting for Starmer, boring though he is. Boring is okay. I voted for Welsh Labour on Thursday, which was very much a vote for the Welsh party and nothing to do with feelings about the Westminster lot. Welsh Labour made a point of putting distance between themselves and the Westminster party when Corbyn was in charge. He went down very badly on Welsh doorsteps. Anyway, Welsh Labour did well this time round.
Ben@Forest
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

Tangled Metal wrote: 8 May 2021, 4:10pm A lot of corbyns issues arise from the more left wing political obsessions. Nuclear disarmament, Western imperialism (nothing to say on Eastern imperialism) and ending capitalism. You can add in Palestinian issue and South American plus Cuban socialism. Basically they look to others for role models and causes. They try to impose their views on people more than other parties and political positions on the spectrum, apart from the far right perhaps but we've never had the far right was close to the power centre of a party for a very long time. That's just my opinion. It's why I think a lot of England can't vote for labour still.
And of course his attitude to anti-Semitism which was/is at best lackadaisical and at worst downright bigoted.
Psamathe
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:20pm
al_yrpal wrote: 8 May 2021, 2:09pmHe said he was amazed at the negative comments about Corbyn and his acolytes who are still around in Senior Labour positions being given as the reason previously loyal Labour voters were giving as why they wouldnt be voting Labour.
I've read several accounts of Mandelson's comments, but I haven't seen "acolytes who are still around in Senior Labour positions". Have you got a source, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
In terms of "presentation" and reputation it's is still there. e.g. headline pic from Independent 2 days ago

Image

(Even I didn't read the article, just when I saw your comment remembered the pic I'd seen so turned back to the article).
Ian
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks... but I don't see Mandelson's comments?

Jonathan
markjohnobrien
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Mandelson’s comments are in this link and while he raised Corbyn as one of the main reasons Labour lost, he didn’t mention acolytes in senior positions:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wale ... 544357.amp
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Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Yes, that's the same as I'd found in various media.

Thanks

Jonathan
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