I don't like living in England....

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markjohnobrien
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Vorpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:08pm I was going to point out that in both countries it was the gentry and upper classes who had any say in anything. Even until the 20th century, the poorest in society were disenfranchised. In the 18th and 19th centuries only a small proportion of adult males in any of the countries of the United Kingdom could vote or were represented in parliament. While that proportion increased with reform, it wasn't until the 20th century that a majority of adult men & women in the UK could vote.
Of course: that was a given for the time and the world.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Oldjohnw wrote: 3 May 2021, 11:16am
al_yrpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 10:17am There was an excellent Scottish band called Stramash. It had a very eclectic collection of instruments from a trumpet and cello to the pipes.

If the Scots want to leave the UK and join the Superstate they should be able to get on with it.

Al

The Scots are possibly already in a superstate. They will have much more autonomy in the EU but out of the UK.
:lol: Well if you reckon they are already in one composed of 4 nations where they actually have a load of seats in a parliament just think how much influence they will have in a real superstate run by the elite of a couple of countries amongst 27. :lol:

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

Vorpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:08pm I was going to point out that in both countries it was the gentry and upper classes who had any say in anything. .....
Had you done so sooner I'd not have posted "We seem to have some confusion between the effects of social class and nationality" which was prompted by comments about Clearances and banning Gaelic.
markjohnobrien
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Mike Sales wrote: 3 May 2021, 11:54am Lachlan Macquarie, sometimes called the Father of Australia, was important to the development of the colony.
He was born on Ulva, by Mull.
There are many places, islands, institutions etc. named for him in Australia.

I am an RLS fan too.
Under the wide and starry sky,
Dig the grave and let me lie.
Glad did I live and gladly die,
And I laid me down with a will.

This be the verse you grave for me:
Here he lies where he longed to be;
Home is the sailor, home from sea,
And the hunter home from the hill.
Same for me: RLS wrote stunning books. Even his travel volumes like “Travels with a Donkey” and the “Amateur Emigrant...” are so well written.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:18pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 3 May 2021, 11:16am
al_yrp[i wrote:al post_id=1602719 time=1620033445 user_id=2477]
If the Scots want to lea[/i]ve the UK and join the Superstate they should be able to get on with it.
The Scots are possibly already in a superstate. They will have much more autonomy in the EU but out of the UK.
Well if you reckon they are already in one composed of 4 nations where they actually have a load of seats in a parliament just think how much influence they will have in a real superstate run by the elite of a couple of countries amongst 27.
The powers of the UK government are what makes the UK a superstate over Scotland. The only powers that Holyrood has are those allowed by Westminster. But Scotland has no choice in whether it wants to be governed that way and doesn't have the statutory right to withdraw from the UK.

The EU works the other way round. The only powers that eg the Commission has are those explicitly given to it by Member States, typically in treaties. And a Member State can withdraw whenever it wants, as we've just seen.

That's why Oldjohnw is correct about the greater autonomy.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

markjohnobrien wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:24pmSame for me: RLS wrote stunning books. Even his travel volumes like “Travels with a Donkey” and the “Amateur Emigrant...” are so well written.
The France en Velo route runs close to Modestine's in the Cevennes. So I reread it while we were there. Although we had less gear...

Jonathan
buryman
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by buryman »

Jdsk wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:35pm
markjohnobrien wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:24pmSame for me: RLS wrote stunning books. Even his travel volumes like “Travels with a Donkey” and the “Amateur Emigrant...” are so well written.
The France en Velo route runs close to Modestine's in the Cevennes. So I reread it while we were there. Although we had less gear...

Jonathan
The long distance path GR70 more or less follows his route.
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

al_yrpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:18pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 3 May 2021, 11:16am
al_yrpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 10:17am There was an excellent Scottish band called Stramash. It had a very eclectic collection of instruments from a trumpet and cello to the pipes.

If the Scots want to leave the UK and join the Superstate they should be able to get on with it.

Al

The Scots are possibly already in a superstate. They will have much more autonomy in the EU but out of the UK.
:lol: Well if you reckon they are already in one composed of 4 nations where they actually have a load of seats in a parliament just think how much influence they will have in a real superstate run by the elite of a couple of countries amongst 27. :lol:

Al

If Scotland were independent within the EU it would have the following powers which it does not have at present (and which the UK always had even when in the EU)

- the ability to set its own taxes
- the ability to run its own foreign affairs
- the ability to protect its own borders
- the ability to have its own defence policies
- the ability to fully manage its own healthcare, social security, education, criminal justice, police
- the ability to make its own laws in general

And so on.
John
ClappedOut
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by ClappedOut »

Oldjohnw wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:24pm
al_yrpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:18pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 3 May 2021, 11:16am


The Scots are possibly already in a superstate. They will have much more autonomy in the EU but out of the UK.
:lol: Well if you reckon they are already in one composed of 4 nations where they actually have a load of seats in a parliament just think how much influence they will have in a real superstate run by the elite of a couple of countries amongst 27. :lol:

Al

If Scotland were independent within the EU it would have the following powers which it does not have at present (and which the UK always had even when in the EU)

- the ability to set its own taxes
- the ability to run its own foreign affairs
- the ability to protect its own borders
- the ability to have its own defence policies
- the ability to fully manage its own healthcare, social security, education, criminal justice, police
- the ability to make its own laws in general

And so on.
Personally I’m all for welsh and Scottish independent states.
I’d also like to see devolved regional governments as parliament seems to be far removed, incompetent and corrupt.
The world was going to end with Brexit, they messed about and the dawn still broke the day after.
francovendee
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by francovendee »

Surprising how many leavers don't want Scots to be given the same choice.
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

francovendee wrote: 4 May 2021, 1:35pm Surprising how many leavers don't want Scots to be given the same choice.
If Scotland, N Ireland or Wales votes to leave the UK they should be able to IMO. That would leave the folk in England financially better off too. They all seem to love EU subsidies but seem to forget the English derived subsidies.

Al (leaver)
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

al_yrpal wrote: 4 May 2021, 5:11pm
francovendee wrote: 4 May 2021, 1:35pm Surprising how many leavers don't want Scots to be given the same choice.
If Scotland, N Ireland or Wales votes to leave the UK they should be able to IMO. That would leave the folk in England financially better off too. They all seem to love EU subsidies but seem to forget the English derived subsidies.

Al (leaver)
Trouble is, the UK government is so far refusing to let them express their wishes. People in Scotland also pay taxes which goes to the UK Treasury.

Funny old world.
John
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 4 May 2021, 5:11pm
francovendee wrote: 4 May 2021, 1:35pm Surprising how many leavers don't want Scots to be given the same choice.
If Scotland, N Ireland or Wales votes to leave the UK they should be able to IMO. That would leave the folk in England financially better off too. They all seem to love EU subsidies but seem to forget the English derived subsidies.
The fiscal transfers are well understood.

The data are in GERS:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/gover ... s-2019-20/

The economic issues that independence would precipitate are so important that the First Minister and the SNP have established an ongoing project to study them and report in public: the Sustainable Growth Commission.
https://www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot

And here's the most recent analysis by the IfS:
"Updated projections of Scotland's fiscal position - and their implications"
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/15418

Jonathan
ClappedOut
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by ClappedOut »

Simple question why don’t Scottish nationalists keep begging for independence and not simply put two fingers up to Westminster? If Poll tax was beaten by indifference, a whole country could easily do it.

Sturgeon is a lunatic in my opinion and her angle is to bleat independence, but would soon run out of luck when she got it. My thoughts are she likes to kick off knowing it won’t happen, has she any concrete self sufficiency plans.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by [XAP]Bob »

ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 7:19pm I’d also like to see devolved regional governments as parliament seems to be far removed, incompetent and corrupt.
The world was going to end with Brexit, they messed about and the dawn still broke the day after.
No one ever said the world would end immediately.

And it was never the world that would end, just the UKs place in it... and it has gone.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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