I don't like living in England....

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Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Ben@Forest wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:36amThere is an undercurrent on the Tea Shop that Britain but often just England is an unusually unpleasant country with unusually inept or corrupt politicians or police or bureaucracy or even citizenry and that other countries (not least Scotland if England is the target of ire) always do things better.
I don't agree. What I observe is people discussing how they would like to improve their country, which will often involve identifying problems. And then a reaction saying that it's worse elsewhere. Or that people should leave.

Comparisons with other countries are an excellent tool for discussing improvements to our own. But whataboutery is a logical fallacy that drags the discussion down.

Jonathan
Ben@Forest
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:42am I must say I don’t really understand how criticism of he UK government is racist. I have never criticised “the English”. I am, after all, English.
But the thread title is not 'I don't like the UK government'. I'm not saying you intend 'I don't like living in England' to be racist but that if a thread title contained any other country's name we would all be more sensitive or aware of intended or unintended racism.
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Ben@Forest wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:48am
Oldjohnw wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:42am I must say I don’t really understand how criticism of he UK government is racist. I have never criticised “the English”. I am, after all, English.
But the thread title is not 'I don't like the UK government'. I'm not saying you intend 'I don't like living in England' to be racist but that if a thread title contained any other country's name we would all be more sensitive or aware of intended or unintended racism.
When we get to 38 pages it's unreasonable to think that every post will be closely related to the Subject... : - )

But the ellipsis in this Subject works well in inviting discussion.... you can hear the "because" that's invited in the responses.

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

The ellipsis was deliberate, as you perhaps understood, and 38 pages later the discussion continues.

Here’s a thought. Only England wanted to leave the EU, which was set up - and was successful - as a peace project. Within 5 months of leaving the EU gunboats are on the way to France. I never thought an English PM would order that in my lifetime. Of course, the French agricultural and fishery workers have form here. Some kind of blockade is almost an annual ritual. And it looks like the Jersey government are a bit inept. But gunboats?
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 6 May 2021, 9:18am, edited 1 time in total.
John
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

It's the Cod War re-enactment society and it disproves one theory which is that countries are always fully prepared to fight the last war. What's needed here is some ropey old reinforced tugs similar to what Iceland deployed all those years ago.
Ben@Forest
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:54am The ellipsis was deliberate, as you perhaps understood, and 38 pages later the discussion continues.

Here’s a thought. Only England wanted to leave the EU, which was set up - and was successful - as a peace project. Within 5 months of leaving the EU gunboats are on the way to France. I never thought an English PM would order that in my lifetime. Of course, the French agricultural and fishery workers have form here. Some kind of blockade is almost an annual ritual. And it looks like the Jersey government are a bit inept. But gunboats?
And Wales. And really the idea that the EU prevented war is moot. Democracies don't tend to go to war with each other and Europe is made up of democracies. Has the EU stopped war? Some have argued that by making overtures to Ukraine the EU helped set off a chain reaction leading to a bloody civil war.
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

Nobody can really know what the EU and its predecessors have achieved in terms of peace but AIUI, the original aim was to prevent the recurring wars between France and Germany with others drawn in and there have been no such conflicts in the 75+ years since the end of WWII.
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Some posters seem to believe that they can post a continual torrent of criticism of our country its people and its government and remain imune from responses. It wont wash.

The French way of settling disputes is famous for direct action. Their gunboats are out there now supporting the French fleet trying to intimidate Jersey and it was their parliament that is threatening to cut off electricity supplies which is simply deplorable. All over 17 fishing licences!

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Ben@Forest
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:29am Nobody can really know what the EU and its predecessors have achieved in terms of peace but AIUI, the original aim was to prevent the recurring wars between France and Germany with others drawn in and there have been no such conflicts in the 75+ years since the end of WWII.
And another factor was of course that for 45 years all of Western Europe was more exercised by the threat of the Soviet Union than war with their near neighbours.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

al_yrpal wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:45am Some posters seem to believe that they can post a continual torrent of criticism of our country its people and its government and remain imune from responses. It wont wash.


Al
What makes you say that people who post criticism of the government expect to remain immune from responses?

My post makes it pretty clear that I do not support the French activity.

When there is something commendable about our government I will be happy to sing its praises. I already have said Johnson made a good political judgement in buying up vaccines even when their success was unknown.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 6 May 2021, 12:16pm, edited 4 times in total.
John
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

Ben@Forest wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:46am
And another factor was of course that for 45 years all of Western Europe was more exercised by the threat of the Soviet Union than war with their near neighbours.
I'd have put threat in inverted commas, but you are right. The odd thing about this is that historically, Russia in its various forms has never really had designs on Europe and the response to aggression has been to fall back until the Winter defeated invaders. We heard wildly exaggerated estimates of the strength of the Red Army, presumably to justify a big arms budget here.
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

We can do amazing mental and verbal justifying gymnastics but the horrific reality is that we have sent gun boats to fend off our nearest mainland European neighbour. Whatever the provocation this is pretty terrible and that it has happened a mere five months after leaving a union of sovereign states is a remarkable coincidence.
John
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Maillot Rouge »

al_yrpal wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:45am Some posters seem to believe that they can post a continual torrent of criticism of our country its people and its government and remain imune from responses. It wont wash.

The French way of settling disputes is famous for direct action. Their gunboats are out there now supporting the French fleet trying to intimidate Jersey and it was their parliament that is threatening to cut off electricity supplies which is simply deplorable. All over 17 fishing licences!

Al
I think you will find that we sent our gunboats after the UK sent there’s.Please fact check.
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

Perhaps there's a clue in the prominence being given to this in some newspapers: a bit of sabre rattling or the naval equivalent is believed to do wonders at the polls.
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 May 2021, 12:42pm Perhaps there's a clue in the prominence being given to this in some newspapers: a bit of sabre rattling or the naval equivalent is believed to do wonders at the polls.

Good point. It happens just before Election Day. Normally a massive diplomatic effort would have taken place. All seems a bit hasty.
John
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