I don't like living in England....

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Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

As a kid I was very proud of my American heritage. It works both ways. In my case my grandfather was American and descended from the earliest settlers too not a modern immigrant. I assume 1600s don't count as modern immigration???

However as an adult I have less strong feelings of pride in nationality? I do like the idea that I'm descended from Swedish immigrants to America. great possibly great, great grandparents. My American branch has been traced back to Bristol and Göteborg with an unknown German origin in there. All interesting to me but I feel no no right to call myself German or Swedish or American. However Biden and many other Americans call themselves Irish. It's madness IMHO and sets up prejudiced views too. I do think Biden is prejudiced against Britain just too much of a diplomat and pragmatist to let it fully affect policy.

We are all a product of our past/ancestry/histories whether we put prominence on it or not. It's just an influence however small. Placing too much prominence on such a small aspect isn't great IMHO?
merseymouth
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

Hi TM :D , Sounds like you should have the middle name "Heinz" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . Ketchup with you later, TTFN MM
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

I always say that if you're from this land you're probably a right mongrel of ancestry. We're a nation with a very long history of immigration, integration and conquest. We can be proud of the past but against it now.

It seems some are proud of their Viking ancestry but I bet more than a few of them voted for leave because of immigration. Is that a form of hypocrisy?
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

merseymouth wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 4:20pm Hi TM :D , Sounds like you should have the middle name "Heinz" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . Ketchup with you later, TTFN MM
You know I think one of my American ancestors had that as a name. Middle or first name I can't recall.

Well my fish and chips are due to be delivered. So tartare for now!! :lol:
Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Mike Sales »

Tangled Metal wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 6:29pm I always say that if you're from this land you're probably a right mongrel of ancestry. We're a nation with a very long history of immigration, integration and conquest. We can be proud of the past but against it now.

It seems some are proud of their Viking ancestry but I bet more than a few of them voted for leave because of immigration. Is that a form of hypocrisy?
]The True Born Englishman
By Daniel Defoe
Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman:
In eager rapes, and furious lust begot,
Betwixt a painted Britain and a Scot.
Whose gend’ring off-spring quickly learn’d to bow,
And yoke their heifers to the Roman plough:
From whence a mongrel half-bred race there came,
With neither name, nor nation, speech nor fame.
In whose hot veins new mixtures quickly ran,
Infus’d betwixt a Saxon and a Dane.
While their rank daughters, to their parents just,
Receiv’d all nations with promiscuous lust.
This nauseous brood directly did contain
The well-extracted blood of Englishmen.

Which medly canton’d in a heptarchy,
A rhapsody of nations to supply,
Among themselves maintain’d eternal wars,
And still the ladies lov’d the conquerors.

[/url]

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... englishman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True- ... an[/quote]
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Vorpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Vorpal »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:08pm
Mike Sales wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:01pm I thought that USAnians looking for their heritage in the Scottish Highlands were figures of fun, until I recalled why their ancestors had probably left.
You could imagine what might be written as a motto in a big statue at the port of arrival...

Jonathan
Some of my ancestors were part of the Clearances, and considered themselves lucky to have a choice to take passage to the USA.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Mike Sales
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Mike Sales »

Vorpal wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 10:20am
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:08pm
Mike Sales wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:01pm I thought that USAnians looking for their heritage in the Scottish Highlands were figures of fun, until I recalled why their ancestors had probably left.
You could imagine what might be written as a motto in a big statue at the port of arrival...

Jonathan
Some of my ancestors were part of the Clearances, and considered themselves lucky to have a choice to take passage to the USA.
Indeed, and after they were burnt out of their homes.
Would we call them economic migrants these days?
Many people trying to follow that example from a southerly direction.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Jdsk
Posts: 24482
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Vorpal wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 10:20am
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:08pm
Mike Sales wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 3:01pm I thought that USAnians looking for their heritage in the Scottish Highlands were figures of fun, until I recalled why their ancestors had probably left.
You could imagine what might be written as a motto in a big statue at the port of arrival...
Some of my ancestors were part of the Clearances, and considered themselves lucky to have a choice to take passage to the USA.
Many people are familiar with the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free". It's not so common to hear “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!”, but that's a good summary of what I don't like about England, and which I'd like to see disappear from my country as soon as possible.

Jonathan
Vorpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Vorpal »

Ben@Forest wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 2:51pm
Vorpal wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 11:44am There are some things unique about the US experience; one is simply that racists are more comfortable being open about their racism....
America seems to be a more tribal society full stop. Peoples' need to identify themselves by heritage seems never ending. Joe Biden is a prime example - he happily identifies as Irish even though he is at best Irish-American, it's from generations back and appears to have as much English ancestry as Irish....

It seems strange that Americans want to own a bit of heritage that really they have no part of. I can't even tell you where my great grandparents come from and it really doesn't matter, but for Americans it appears to.
That's because everyone in the US is from somewhere else. Where they came from was often all they had.

Even if they were born in the USA, their parents or grandparents likely weren't. If they were born in the area where they now live, their parents likely weren't. When I was a child in the US, the first question people asked each other upon meeting someone new was "Where are you from?" and they meant 'what country did your family come from?', though the answer could as easily be New York, as Sweden.

In 2015, roughly 23% of children in state schools in the USA were from immigrant households. Proportions are higher in cities. It was lower when I was a child, but my school was ~20% children from immigrant households. And they were from Sweden, Germany, Poland, Mexico, Guatemala, Vietnam, Jamaica, Lebanon, and many other places.

In rural areas, there were fewer immigrants, but even so, most families had only been on their land for a generation or 2. My family in Wisconsin was unusual, in that they had been in Wisconsin for 4 generations. They moved within Wisconsin, and my grandfather was the first to own our family farm, where I spent my summers, while growing up. The house there was built in 1912, and it is considered old, by Midwestern US standards.

There are few families in the USA that can claim to have been there more than a few generations, let alone own the land that their ancestors owned. Vast areas of North America were still Native American when my great-grandfather was born.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

That's because everyone in the US is from somewhere else.
Just to show I'm trying to pay attention, is that so?
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

thirdcrank wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:16am
That's because everyone in the US is from somewhere else.
Just to show I'm trying to pay attention, is that so?
Everyone unless they are original inhabitants.
John
Vorpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Vorpal »

Oldjohnw wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:28am
thirdcrank wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:16am
That's because everyone in the US is from somewhere else.
Just to show I'm trying to pay attention, is that so?
Everyone unless they are original inhabitants.
Well, that's an embarrassing error. Native Americans are not, of course from somewhere else.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

Vorpal wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:30am
Oldjohnw wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:28am
thirdcrank wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:16am Just to show I'm trying to pay attention, is that so?
Everyone unless they are original inhabitants.
Well, that's an embarrassing error. Native Americans are not, of course from somewhere else.
It depends what "original" means... first humans to be there... where a species evolved... where an individual was born... where ancestors were before they were there...

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:46am
Vorpal wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:30am
Oldjohnw wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:28am
Everyone unless they are original inhabitants.
Well, that's an embarrassing error. Native Americans are not, of course from somewhere else.
It depends what "original" means... first humans to be there... where a species evolved... where an individual was born... where ancestors were before they were there...

Jonathan
Interesting line of thought but I assume we all know what we mean. Basically, those who were there before the Europeans thought they had found the continent.

Of course, the whole human race comes from a couple in the Garden of Eden about 6,000 years ago 😀
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 28 Jul 2021, 12:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
John
merseymouth
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

I'd demand a firm paper trail! :lol: :lol: :lol: And that must pre-date the family Bible, even if it is an "Adulterer's" version :lol: :wink: MM
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