I don't like living in England....

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merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

Hi Oldjohnw, By your post that would mean that Boris Johnson speaks for you?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Possibly not, so why should the current elected Mayor speak for us? The previous elected Mayor was subjected to a public witch hunt, plenty of smoke and mud, little regard paid to legal fairness!
If we genuinely had a cause to trust our elected leaders, it would vanish in the wake of the stupid infrastructure work which has screwed up so many areas of the city! They're taking so long I do believe the pyramids took less time to build! (Joke)
Neither Joeor Joanne Anderson spoke/speaks for me. MM
Oldjohnw
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Location: South Warwickshire

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

merseymouth wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 1:19pm Hi Oldjohnw, By your post that would mean that Boris Johnson speaks for you?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Possibly not, so why should the current elected Mayor speak for us? The previous elected Mayor was subjected to a public witch hunt, plenty of smoke and mud, little regard paid to legal fairness!
If we genuinely had a cause to trust our elected leaders, it would vanish in the wake of the stupid infrastructure work which has screwed up so many areas of the city! They're taking so long I do believe the pyramids took less time to build! (Joke)
Neither Joeor Joanne Anderson spoke/speaks for me. MM
Boris Johnson was never elected by a majority. Your mayor was.
John
Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 1:58pm Boris Johnson was never elected by a majority. Your mayor was.
Not really, for a start the turnout for the Liverpool mayoral election was less than 30%. The victor got 38.5% of the first votes and then over 50% with the distribution of second votes. The Metro mayor didn't need a distribution of second votes.

It's academic really, but nobody has ever voted for a British PM. Nobody's ever voted for the Scottish or Welsh First Ministers either. It is different to how mayoral elections are run but it's hard to say that a mayor voted on 29% of turnout and 38% of first votes is more legitimate than the 2019 GE where the successful party was voted in on a turnout of 67% and 43% of first (and only) votes.
Oldjohnw
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Location: South Warwickshire

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

I’m not going to argue! I don’t have a view and I expect, as in most things, views are pretty divided.

In Scotland and Wales, people do a bit more vote for their FM since voting is proportional, as is voting for a mayor. The latter is a direct vote and the majority of voters who voted chose the mayor. That cannot be said about the PM.
John
pwa
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by pwa »

Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:08pm I’m not going to argue! I don’t have a view and I expect, as in most things, views are pretty divided.

In Scotland and Wales, people do a bit more vote for their FM since voting is proportional, as is voting for a mayor. The latter is a direct vote and the majority of voters who voted chose the mayor. That cannot be said about the PM.
Most people don't vote for their head of government in any PR system I know of, unless you are talking about a presidential run-off between two candidates, French style. Most PR systems end up with several parties doing deals behind closed doors, as in Israel. What emerges is a programme not put to, or voted for, by anyone.
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

There's a view that looking after one's heritage means sticking it on aspic so it never changes. There's a lot of the big house heritage as well but less of the down and dirty ordinary lives from the past.

I think the world heritage status is very much centred on the single minded idea that heritage can't change or be treated differently with each generation. However as our knowledge and society develops views on heritage sites will change. Stone henge isn't seen as it once was by the experts for example. The idea that it is the heritage site but the wider contemporary landscape isn't its crazy.

Liverpool still has the buildings that earnt the status. Its the committee that changed. And I'd be very interested to know on what evidence they decided. Would they get different decision if they visited? Perhaps the decision was premature considering the stadium hasn't been built yet and could still add to the future heritage.

Whatever the case if the protection of any heritage location is to have precedence over lifting an area out of deprivation then it's a regressive form of keeping your heritage safe. Imho the heritage of the waterfront is mercantile in nature. Its about greed and making money. In that light Everton football club new ground will fit right in!

One more point, the actual site isn't just the waterfront but right back to the big hall inland some way. I'm sure there were some modern developments in that stretch before it was awarded.

I just think its all daft rubbish. Liverpool oozes history. It's everywhere. And imho has the best traditional museum outside of London and the British museum. The library is good, St George's Hall, lime Street Station and so many special buildings. Including the original red brick university, the Victoria building. My dad studied in there, my mum had her first job in there and I studied just behind it.
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

UNESCO can, of course, do whatever they like. The people of Liverpool can then ignore it or get annoyed about it.
John
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

Isn't PR basically about voting for a party list and how far down the lists for parties you go for MPs depends on share of votes. Among the list is the future pm and ministers. In a basic understanding you're not actually voting for anyone. FPTP you're officially voting for the candidate from the party of your choice but is that true? Most vote for party, party manifesto or against someone. Its complex.
merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

Hi again, Oldjohnw says he isn't going to argue :shock: , then he prevaricates! :lol: :lol: . You were spot on Ben :D . TTFN MM
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

People of Liverpool aren't getting annoyed the media, politicians and general public who have said what suits the media's Story line seem to be getting angry on cue. The people of Liverpool I know are getting on with their life. I think the world heritage site status was only ever a nice thing to have but aiui a billion pound plus development in a derelict area is probably nicer for a city that's suffered more than most over the years.
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

merseymouth wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:31pm Hi again, Oldjohnw says he isn't going to argue :shock: , then he prevaricates! :lol: :lol: . You were spot on Ben :D . TTFN MM
Just where did I argue? I completely accept Ben’s figures. I presume they are true and make his point well. I merely made a further observation.
John
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Paulatic
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Paulatic »

Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:08pm In Scotland and Wales, people do a bit more vote for their FM since voting is proportional,
MSPs vote for who is to be FM.
Read today Liz Truss says D Ross will be the next FM :lol:
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Ben@Forest
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:27pm UNESCO can, of course, do whatever they like. The people of Liverpool can then ignore it or get annoyed about it.
One thing they could get annoyed about it that it will have cost the taxpayers at least around £400,000 (on 2007 prices) to achieve World Heritage Status and then have had ongoing costs every year. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... report.pdf

The fact it was designated will have brought money in and may have made the authority invest in schemes, restorations, refurbishments, beneficial to the area, its cultural legacy and the local people. Has Liverpool thrown that away? I guess that there are projects they regard as essential and are needed even if it affected their WHS status.
merseymouth
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

Well I said "Prevaricate", so being manipulative is just another form of arguing. But then that is what we're all on here for :? . MM
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

merseymouth wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 5:12pm Well I said "Prevaricate", so being manipulative is just another form of arguing. But then that is what we're all on here for :? . MM
Manipulative now!
John
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