I don't like living in England....

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thirdcrank
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

Read today Liz Truss says D Ross will be the next FM
You couldn't make it up. Dross by name ....
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

thirdcrank wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 5:31pm
Read today Liz Truss says D Ross will be the next FM
You couldn't make it up. Dross by name ....
But they do!
John
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Mick F
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Mick F »

Dianna Ross?

Will she be singing?
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

The Supremes have done a great job in opposing the attacks on the constitution. They keep me hangin' on.

Jonathan
Tangled Metal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

Well at least we can all like English sense of humour, right?
Stevek76
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Stevek76 »

pwa wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:22pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:08pm I’m not going to argue! I don’t have a view and I expect, as in most things, views are pretty divided.

In Scotland and Wales, people do a bit more vote for their FM since voting is proportional, as is voting for a mayor. The latter is a direct vote and the majority of voters who voted chose the mayor. That cannot be said about the PM.
Most people don't vote for their head of government in any PR system I know of, unless you are talking about a presidential run-off between two candidates, French style. Most PR systems end up with several parties doing deals behind closed doors, as in Israel. What emerges is a programme not put to, or voted for, by anyone.
But it's a programme that's far less likely to contain bonkers ideas that would never get any more than minority support and inevitably result in wasted time and money as they'll just get undone once 'the other side' gets in. Particularly all the cruft that's only in a manifesto because of dubious donations or MPs pet issues will get thrown in the bin and that's rarely a bad thing.

Under no parliamentary system does anyone really vote for a leader. But under more proportional systems, a major party that selects a leader popular amongst the party members but not really with the wider public won't get propped up as part of a duopoly by voters picking a 'least worst' choice of 2.
Oldjohnw wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 1:58pm
Boris Johnson was never elected by a majority. Your mayor was.
Sort of, whilst mayors are still elected under the poundshop voting system of supplementary vote (rather than full ranked choices) then there is still a significant degree of tactical and least worst voting choices once more than 3 viable candidates are standing. Of course the Tories want to regress this to simply plurality voting :roll:
Tangled Metal wrote: 22 Jul 2021, 4:30pm Isn't PR basically about voting for a party list and how far down the lists for parties you go for MPs depends on share of votes.
'PR' tends to be used as a general term to cover a range of systems that return reasonably proportional results. Whilst I guess what would be considered the purest forms are full list based party systems you also get more constituency based systems.

One example is the mixed member systems as used in the Scottish parliament and Welsh/London assemblies where people vote for a constituency MP and a list with the latter used to 'top up' the imbalance of the first.

Another is the STV system that is used in Ireland (and historically for University constituencies to Westminster) where ranked choice voting is used in larger constituencies of 3 to 6 seats.

Systems like those better retain local links and individual accountability. Actually for the latter, STV is probably one of the best systems going. There are always safer seats but given most parties will want to stand at least 2 candidates in each constituency it really reduces the places for the useless duffers to hide.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Liverpool isn’t the only one, it seems:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other

As Oscar Wilde might have said, “ To lose one heritage site, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose more looks like carelessness.”
John
merseymouth
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by merseymouth »

Morning all, Well, I think sites like the China Wall and Ayres Rock should be de-listed? I say this because I think they have had "Health & Safety" work done, hand rails etc. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
But the reality is that the UNESCO mob want everything preserved in aspic. That might work in a miniature model village, but everywhere else that is asking too much.
That should mean only places inaccessible by modern transportation modes should qualify?
I think that the selection panel would de-list Tolkien's "Middle Earth", too accessible :wink: . MM
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Whether our historic gems are listed by Unesco or not makes no difference to me, their attractiveness to tourists or folk charged with their preservation. Sheilding Stonehenge from the A303 is highly desirable. I suspect skulduggery. :lol:

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:05am Whether our historic gems are listed by Unesco or not makes no difference to me, their attractiveness to tourists or folk charged with their preservation.
My emboldening.

Strong words. Any evidence to support that part, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

I watched the considerable controversy over the Stonehenge tunnel developing. It seemed that many tourist, including me, were pretty aghast at the proposals. As were many of those bodies concerned with heritage.

IMV UNESCO do have an important role. Without them some places, perhaps not in the UK, May well have disappeared. I don’t think k they want everything preserved in aspic: just preserved, but of course physical context is important.
John
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:28am
al_yrpal wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:05am Whether our historic gems are listed by Unesco or not makes no difference to me, their attractiveness to tourists or folk charged with their preservation.
My emboldening.

Strong words. Any evidence to support that part, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
You dont seem to be aware of opinions. We have a constant stream of foreign visitors about half of whom go on to Stonehenge. I am pretty sure none of them have ever heard of Unesco.

Do you believe in God? If so do you have evidence?

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:41am
Jdsk wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:28am
al_yrpal wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:05am Whether our historic gems are listed by Unesco or not makes no difference to me, their attractiveness to tourists or folk charged with their preservation.
My emboldening.

Strong words. Any evidence to support that part, please?
You dont seem to be aware of opinions. We have a constant stream of foreign visitors about half of whom go on to Stonehenge. I am pretty sure none of them have ever heard of Unesco.
"... makes no difference to me... : is an opinion, "makes no difference... their attractiveness to tourists" is an allegation about fact. It's testable.

I thought that this discussion might provide some answers to things that I don't know such as why this decision was taken, why the Mayor is "disappointed", and what we actually know about the effect of the designation, including the effects on tourism.

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

This isnt an academic laboratory, its a forum about cycling and we are allowed to express opinions.

My Camper broke down on the A303 right opposite Stonehenge. People visiting wouldnt wish to see stationary traffic belching noxious fumes yards from the monument. A tunnel is a great idea. And, folk live and work around Liverpools docks, they should be allowed to do so, it doesnt detract from the facts about one of the worlds most significant historic ports. I believe some people in Unesco want to delist Britain and its probably partially due to Brexit. :wink:

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 9:05amWhether our historic gems are listed by Unesco or not makes no difference to me, their attractiveness to tourists or folk charged with their preservation.
My emboldening.

Does anyone have any idea why the Mayor is "disappointed"?

Thanks

Jonathan
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