I don't like living in England....

[ClappedOut]

I’d also like to see devolved regional governments as parliament seems to be far removed, incompetent and corrupt.
The world was going to end with Brexit, they messed about and the dawn still broke the day after.

No one ever said the world would end immediately.

And it was never the world that would end, just the UKs place in it... and it has gone.

Couldn’t care less where in a league table we sit as no longer identify as being one with a state that has robbed me blind and destroyed my livelihood and if there was a suitable exit elsewhere that was viable-I would be on the first plane out.

Patriots are the worst as they are blinded to exactly how corrupt, useless and malicious a state can be.

Don’t need to look too far as talking to DWP Disabled-lot they have plenty of experience with ATOS.
Motorbility adapted cars snatched back from wheel chair users made the news as well

[Jdsk]

Simple question why don’t Scottish nationalists keep begging for independence and not simply put two fingers up to Westminster? If Poll tax was beaten by indifference, a whole country could easily do it.

Because the SNP policy is to take each step lawfully. Which seems to me to be the responsible way to behave.

My thoughts are she likes to kick off knowing it won’t happen, has she any concrete self sufficiency plans.

Yes.

As linked in the post immediately before your question.

Jonathan

[ClappedOut]

Simple question why don’t Scottish nationalists keep begging for independence and not simply put two fingers up to Westminster? If Poll tax was beaten by indifference, a whole country could easily do it.

Because the SNP policy is to take each step lawfully. Which seems to me to be the responsible way to behave.

My thoughts are she likes to kick off knowing it won’t happen, has she any concrete self sufficiency plans.

Yes.

As linked in the post immediately before your question.

Jonathan

Sounds like a slave asking master for freedom- never going to happen.

Of course the nuclear subs would have to go to England.

Wish Scotland its freedom, but a pipe dream currently.

[Paulatic]

Sturgeon is a lunatic in my opinion

I don’t think you have a vote in Scotland so you’ll just have to keep it as an opinion.

her angle is to bleat independence, but would soon run out of luck when she got it. My thoughts are she likes to kick off knowing it won’t happen, has she any concrete self sufficiency plans.

Do you really think it’s a one man/woman band? I think Cameron thought it would never happen but it did.

[ClappedOut]

Sturgeon is a lunatic in my opinion

I don’t think you have a vote in Scotland so you’ll just have to keep it as an opinion.

her angle is to bleat independence, but would soon run out of luck when she got it. My thoughts are she likes to kick off knowing it won’t happen, has she any concrete self sufficiency plans.

Do you really think it’s a one man/woman band? I think Cameron thought it would never happen but it did.

I’d like to see separate nations, I see Westminster as a cesspit blackhole from my teenage years and my opinions haven’t changed decades later.

I have no cards in the game, separate nations tomorrow or never- doesn’t affect me.
Though I wouldn’t be visiting Benbecula knowing the contamination levels.

[francovendee]

Surprising how many leavers don't want Scots to be given the same choice.

If Scotland, N Ireland or Wales votes to leave the UK they should be able to IMO. That would leave the folk in England financially better off too. They all seem to love EU subsidies but seem to forget the English derived subsidies.

Al (leaver)

With the money flowing out of England into Scotland you'd think the UK government would welcome cutting off this drain on finances.
As I see it there is a strong desire to stop any possibility of this happening.
The Scots. if the election result returns the SNP, should be allowed to hold a referendum and the UK should honour their choice.
The difficulty is presenting the Scots with fact based pluses and minuses of leaving.
I hope it doesn't follow the untruths told in the UK referendum, but maybe it'll just wanting to be free that wins the day.

[Oldjohnw]

I used to resent the money the Barnett formula paid to Scotland, especially as compared to the pitiful amounts paid to the NE of England (that was fortunately made good by EU funds).

Then, about 20 years ago, I was doing a project in the Outer Hebrides. On a Monday morning I was at the airport at Benbecula awaiting my flight back to Glasgow. The lounge was full of local people, many elderly, awaiting flights to Inverness for routine medical appointments.

I realised how much travel and much more needed subsidy to facilitate life which we south of the border considered ordinary. That is the nature of living in community: you pay into a common purse to benefit others.

How that would happen post independence I don’t know. In the 2014 referendum the claim was made that oil revenues would support Scotland. That no longer works. Many economists think independence would work and many think the opposite. Socially, I have no hesitancy in stating that the nightmare regime is south of the border. In terms of economic viability and competence I just don’t know.

If Scotland were to leave, I doubt England would be better off financially. Culturally and socially it would be massively impoverished.

[francovendee]

Oldjohn.
I think it's quite common to look at things in a purely monetary way but as you point out it's not just about the money.
I'd feel saddened if Scotland wasn't part of the UK but then again I feel the same way about the UK leaving the EU.
I still have the view that 'stronger together' has a lot of merit.

[Ben@Forest]

If Scotland were to leave, I doubt England would be better off financially. Culturally and socially it would be massively impoverished.

Why? Surely this would cut as much, if not more, the other way? The Scots have their own arts and cultural institutions and almost certainly other scientific institutions even if they mimic UK-wide bodies. So the UK has the Royal Society, which didn't stop the Royal Society of Edinburgh being set up 130 years later, what has the rUK lost if Scotland went its own way?

The list of bigger, better-funded institutions in England or England and Wales is long. I'm not going to name it but l am aware of a 'slowly going bust' Scottish body which has looked at merging with its bigger, richer rUK counterpart in recent years.

[thirdcrank]

So much of this is about politicians, rather than those they represent. Boris Johnson sounds to be committed to preserving the Union, but why? Not going down in history as the PM who presided over the end of the Union is not, in itself, any reason. A few years ago I attracted some scathing criticism for knocking Alex Salmond yet now he's been exposed as a politician. From where I'm standing, a substantial part of the attraction of another referendum is being able to raise two fingers to the English. That's all well and good when it's only going on in Scotland, but there's the scope for a lot of unpleasantness if it spreads.

[Oldjohnw]

If Scotland were to leave, I doubt England would be better off financially. Culturally and socially it would be massively impoverished.

Why? Surely this would cut as much, if not more, the other way? The Scots have their own arts and cultural institutions and almost certainly other scientific institutions even if they mimic UK-wide bodies. So the UK has the Royal Society, which didn't stop the Royal Society of Edinburgh being set up 130 years later, what has the rUK lost if Scotland went its own way?

The list of bigger, better-funded institutions in England or England and Wales is long. I'm not going to name it but l am aware of a 'slowly going bust' Scottish body which has looked at merging with its bigger, richer rUK counterpart in recent years.

My take is that the division of rich and poor, whilst certainly evident in Scotland, is less so. Further, in the UK, we have a government which seems determined to make that division ever greater. In my work on social exclusion on both sides of the border over the years, things are very much worse in England - and with no political will to do anything about it.

[Psamathe]

....
The difficulty is presenting the Scots with fact based pluses and minuses of leaving.
I hope it doesn't follow the untruths told in the UK referendum, but maybe it'll just wanting to be free that wins the day.

It's maybe ironic (is that the word?) when it is Johnson who pushed the "fact based" politics way outside any reasonable boundaries yet when it might work against him he'll undoubtedly be trying to call out what he regards as "lies" (in his alternate Universe).

Ian

[Psamathe]

.... Not going down in history as the PM who presided over the end of the Union is not, in itself, any reason. ...

I would agree in that his "legacy" will be the horrendous death toll caused by his dithering and delaying over health protection measures against Covid.

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

As I have indicated, I am not persuaded either way about the economic realities of Scotland leaving the UK. But I understand anyone wanting to take a move which would get them out of the reach of the Westminster gang, who seem intent on leaving a trail of social destruction whilst making a few people very wealthy.

Every time Johnson opens his mouth gives people another reason to want to escape his reach.

[Paulatic]

From where I'm standing, a substantial part of the attraction of another referendum is being able to raise two fingers to the English. That's all well and good when it's only going on in Scotland, but there's the scope for a lot of unpleasantness if it spreads.

WOW!
You are obviously standing in England.
Didn’t a recent referendum show an England majority putting two fingers up to Scotland without even a commiserate comment afterwards or indeed any attempt to placate. Just a like it and lump it attitude.
Of course that referendum didn’t leave any unpleasantness. That was probably the EU’s fault.