Who's had their second jab?

[yostumpy]

Having my second stabbing on Sat 22nd, at 11 weeks, they have been pestering me from 8 weeks, but thought I'd hang it out for max benefit.

[Jdsk]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/can-you-stil ... e-vaccine/

This article is from 19 January 2021. The study showing reduced transmission that is cited above was published after that date.

Jonathan

[jo' bo]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/can-you-stil ... e-vaccine/

This article is from 19 January 2021. The study showing reduced transmission that is cited above was published after that date.

Jonathan

Reduced transmission doesnt mean no transmission does it ?

[Jdsk]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/can-you-stil ... e-vaccine/

This article is from 19 January 2021. The study showing reduced transmission that is cited above was published after that date.

Reduced transmission doesnt mean no transmission does it ?

No, of course it doesn't. That study found that the vaccine roughly halved transmission.

That's an enormous contribution to health and happiness. But only made by the people who accepted the invitation to be vaccinated.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Reduced transmission doesnt mean no transmission does it ?

No, of course it doesn't. That study found that the vaccine roughly halved transmission.

So what exactly are you contesting

I said the vacine doesnt stop you from passing it.

You took issue with that and now,seem to agree that it doesnt

I'm "contesting":

1 Your denial that vaccination protects against death.

2 Your assertion that vaccination only "alleviates symptoms". 1503.

3 Your assertion that vaccination "doesnt stop you spreading it". 1438.

4 Your description of "sterile" vaccines. 1503.

Jonathan

[jo' bo]

No, of course it doesn't. That study found that the vaccine roughly halved transmission.

So what exactly are you contesting

I said the vacine doesnt stop you from passing it.

You took issue with that and now,seem to agree that it doesnt

I'm "contesting":

1 Your denial that vaccination protects against death.

2 Your assertion that vaccination only "alleviates symptoms".

3 Your assertion that vaccination "doesnt stop you spreading it"

4 Your description of "sterile vaccines".

I hate to point out the obvious, but you've just directly conceded three of those and the other by implication

[Jdsk]

I don't know what you mean.

Is that because you think that it's only protection if it's 100%?

Jonathan

[jo' bo]

I don't know what you mean.

Is that because you think that it's only protection if it's 100%?

Jonathan

Il try again, possibly for the last time, but who knows its a,dull afternoon

It's very good at stopping people from dieing, with the rider that only a very small % of people were in any real danger of death to start off with, or rather the attrition rate among the over 70s was huge, a lot less so for youngish people

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it or passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

If your one of the people who cant have the vacines because you have,a compromised immune system, your still at serious risk of catching it from those who have had the vacine AND as you already have a,compromised immune system, a very real risk of being very seriously I'll if you do

[Jdsk]

Thank you.

Agreed: the vaccine protects against death.

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it...

It's highly effective at protecting you from serious illness. Agreed?

However it's not very effective at... passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

OK. But I'd call that highly effective.

Since we're now agreed that vaccination protects other people from infection please could you remind us why you chose not to accept the offer?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

Thank you.

Agreed: the vaccine protects against death.

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it...

It's highly effective at protecting you from serious illness. Agreed?

However it's not very effective at... passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

OK. But I'd call that highly effective.

Since we're now agreed that vaccination protects other people from infection please could you remind us why you chose not to accept the offer?

Thanks

Jonathan

I wonder if some people think too simplistically about the impact of a 50% spread reduction - i.e. they only see that they are 50% less likely to catch it from somebody else. But they overlook the broader picture that they can only catch it from somebody who has Covid and a 50% reduction means not only that they are 50% less likely to catch it from somebody with Covid but also that there will be far fewer people around with Covid to spread it in the 1st place .........

Ian

[jo' bo]

Thank you.

Agreed: the vaccine protects against death.

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it...

It's highly effective at protecting you from serious illness. Agreed?

However it's not very effective at... passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

OK. But I'd call that highly effective.

Since we're now agreed that vaccination protects other people from infection please could you remind us why you chose not to accept the offer?

Thanks

Jonathan

I wonder if some people think too simplistically about the impact of a 50% spread reduction - i.e. they only see that they are 50% less likely to catch it from somebody else. But they overlook the broader picture that they can only catch it from somebody who has Covid and a 50% reduction means not only that they are 50% less likely to catch it from somebody with Covid but also that there will be far fewer people around with Covid to spread it in the 1st place .........

Ian

Maybe, but we have been starve of assessment onfo from the beginning

A 50% reduction sound impressive, but 50% of what chance of catching it in the first place

[Psamathe]

Thank you.

Agreed: the vaccine protects against death.

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it...

It's highly effective at protecting you from serious illness. Agreed?

However it's not very effective at... passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

OK. But I'd call that highly effective.

Since we're now agreed that vaccination protects other people from infection please could you remind us why you chose not to accept the offer?

Thanks

Jonathan

Id call 50% the toss of a coin, I doubt many people would do many things if they only had a 50% chance of escaping unscaved, highly effective is not an adjective I'd use in that context, maybe slightly effective would be closer to the mark

And that's with out drilling down into the figures, it may be 50% effective with coughing in a supermarket queue, but not at all effective if you get up close and breath on your elderly mother and who going to take a 50% chance on killing their mother anyway

What we have agreed is that those with compromised immune systems are not save from me or from those who are vaccinated, the only safe course of action for them is to stay in and wear a mask, quite possibly for ever

I think you have confirmed my point above about not appreciating the complexity of how an e.g. 50% spread reduction actually affects the risk of catching the disease. It is far more involved that your individual chance of catching it from an infected person (as e.g. you chance of coming across an infected person is also reduced, etc.)

Ian

[Jdsk]

Thank you.

Agreed: the vaccine protects against death.

However it's not very effective at either,stopping you from contracting it...

It's highly effective at protecting you from serious illness. Agreed?

However it's not very effective at... passing it on, il accept it reduces it, by an unknown amount, you say 50% let's run with that

OK. But I'd call that highly effective.

Since we're now agreed that vaccination protects other people from infection please could you remind us why you chose not to accept the offer?

Id call 50% the toss of a coin, I doubt many people would do many things if they only had a 50% chance of escaping unscaved, highly effective is not an adjective I'd use in that context, maybe slightly effective would be closer to the mark

That 50% isn't the chance of you transmitting it to someone else. It's the reduction in the chance that you will.

As Ian observes halving transmission would be massively beneficial to the population.

Jonathan

Edited: Crossed with Ian's.

[Bonefishblues]

It reduces transmission to others by 50%. In epidemiological terms, that's huge.

...and I with yours Jonathan

[Psamathe]

.....
A 50% reduction sound impressive, but 50% of what chance of catching it in the first place

We have now seen a massive relaxation of NPI and are likely to see an end many more restrictions soon. Relaxation of NPIs make catching Covid more likely (even if you don't go to the pub because the person behind you in the supermarket queue may have been to the pub or their son was in the pub ...). Relaxation of rules means the chances of spread have to be reduced by other means or we'll quickly be outstripping Brazil or India (again). And vaccination is what does that (through the compounding effects or reduction in chances of catching it plus the reduction in risks of spreading it reducing the R value, etc. ...).

It's more complex that the way you are interpreting the 50% figure.

Ian