Who's had their second jab?

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Psamathe
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Psamathe »

jo' bo wrote: 17 May 2021, 9:34pm
After that its straight out of catch 22, if I choose not to the govenment will mandate it, so I need to choose to do what the govenment wants so I have freedom eeer
I don't see it as Catch 22. More that the more people who could get vaccinated but chose not to the higher the cost to the rest of society, more health risks, slower relaxation from rules, worse impact on others needing healthcare (e.g. cancer patients), higher impact on economy. We all pay for the choices you are making. I think the reason people are concerned as we are all paying yet you have been unable to justify your "choice" other than some "sterile vaccine" talk which nobody other than you can find anything about and you would reveal your sources on it!

e.g.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57134181 wrote:He said the majority of those in hospital in Bolton - a hotspot for the Indian variant - were unvaccinated.
Ian
Oldjohnw
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Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Sometimes it’s best to simply not engage. For me, this is such a time.
John
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Psamathe »

Oldjohnw wrote: 17 May 2021, 10:01pm Sometimes it’s best to simply not engage. For me, this is such a time.
I think you are right. Me too (now).

Ian
jo' bo
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Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by jo' bo »

Psamathe wrote: 17 May 2021, 9:55pm
jo' bo wrote: 17 May 2021, 9:34pm
After that its straight out of catch 22, if I choose not to the govenment will mandate it, so I need to choose to do what the govenment wants so I have freedom eeer
I don't see it as Catch 22. More that the more people who could get vaccinated but chose not to the higher the cost to the rest of society, more health risks, slower relaxation from rules, worse impact on others needing healthcare (e.g. cancer patients), higher impact on economy. We all pay for the choices you are making. I think the reason people are concerned as we are all paying yet you have been unable to justify your "choice" other than some "sterile vaccine" talk which nobody other than you can find anything about and you would reveal your sources on it!

e.g.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57134181 wrote:He said the majority of those in hospital in Bolton - a hotspot for the Indian variant - were unvaccinated.
Ian
So you dont think people should be able to choose, or you do,as long as they choose what you want them to

It's not clear
Psamathe
Posts: 17648
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Psamathe »

jo' bo wrote: 17 May 2021, 11:55pm
Psamathe wrote: 17 May 2021, 9:55pm
jo' bo wrote: 17 May 2021, 9:34pm
After that its straight out of catch 22, if I choose not to the govenment will mandate it, so I need to choose to do what the govenment wants so I have freedom eeer
I don't see it as Catch 22. More that the more people who could get vaccinated but chose not to the higher the cost to the rest of society, more health risks, slower relaxation from rules, worse impact on others needing healthcare (e.g. cancer patients), higher impact on economy. We all pay for the choices you are making. I think the reason people are concerned as we are all paying yet you have been unable to justify your "choice" other than some "sterile vaccine" talk which nobody other than you can find anything about and you would reveal your sources on it!

e.g.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57134181 wrote:He said the majority of those in hospital in Bolton - a hotspot for the Indian variant - were unvaccinated.
Ian
So you dont think people should be able to choose, or you do,as long as they choose what you want them to

It's not clear
I do think people should be able to chose but I also think that when people make a choice that costs others in society they should be able to justify that choice beyond just declaring the importance of "freedom of choice."

Ian
Vorpal
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Vorpal »

I have pruned the thread considerably. I have tried to retain the good discussion, whilst pruning the conspiracy theory & anti-vax stuff, but it took a while & I migth have missed something, if anyone notices something, please report it.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Jdsk
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Jdsk »

Thank you

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 17 May 2021, 2:48pm It (the vaccine) protects against death and serious disease.

It also reduces transmission to others:
"Impact of vaccination on household transmission of SARS-COV-2 in England"
https://khub.net/documents/135939561/39 ... 9601878136
At this point I should also have mentioned:
"Effect of vaccination on transmission of COVID-19: an observational study in healthcare workers and their households"
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv ... 5.full.pdf

Jonathan

Statement of interest: The first author on the second paper is a friend and sort of ex-colleague.
colin54
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by colin54 »

I had mine a couple of weeks ago (Astra-Zeneca), I felt a bit off-colour for a day or two and still have a yellow bruise at the sight of the injection, but happy and grateful to have got it.
I'm not that bright, but having seen the enormous efforts from highly educated scientists and health professionals telling me this is the way to combat this disease, I have no trouble bowing to their greater knowledge and receiving it, and thank them for their labours on the country's behalf.
A couple of the people that I know who have not chosen to be innoculated for their own reasons, have mentioned to me that they had been telephoned on multiple occasions (and to no effect apparently), I wonder if this is a useful use of resources, i.e. how many are actually changing their minds. People's attitudes may tend harden and become fixed if pressed.
Nu-Fogey
Jdsk
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Jdsk »

colin54 wrote: 18 May 2021, 9:21amA couple of the people that I know who have not chosen to be innoculated for their own reasons, have mentioned to me that they had been telephoned on multiple occasions (and to no effect apparently), I wonder if this is a useful use of resources, i.e. how many are actually changing their minds. People's attitudes may tend harden and become fixed if pressed.
Great point. Unfortunately this is now of national importance.

A few generalisations:

It's useful to distinguish between those who are hesitant and those who are opposed.

Building on an existing trust relationship seems to be the most effective route with the hesitant. GPs, local leaders etc.

There are... differences of opinion in how to discuss this with those who are opposed.

Jonathan
slowster
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by slowster »

There is a huge moral duty to try to reach those who are vaccine hesitant/resistant and ensure that they have good accurate information about the benefits and about the risks, so that they can make an informed decision. It will appropriate to do that using different formats, because different people will be receptive to different sources, whether that be GPs, politicians, community leaders, religious leaders, media outlets etc. The fact that some of those approaches might put some people's backs up and make them determined to refuse the vaccine is something that probably cannot be avoided: it's not possible to tailor the message for every person individually. If someone decides not have the vaccine for reasons not supported by the medical science, they have to accept the responsibility for that themselves (not say childishly that it's the fault of the GP [or whoever], because they didn't like the manner in which the GP communicated the message to them).

However there are millions who do want the vaccine and can take the place in the queue of those who refuse the vaccine, and the bigger priority must be getting as many people vaccinated as soon as possible, not least teenagers and the young who have had their schooling, employment prospects and lives so disrupted.

But oh the irony of a government composed of politcians who embraced outright lying to achieve their aims and power, and a prime minister who is proud of his ability to get away with lying, now asking people to trust them about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. And even more ironic, the people who voted for them and should be more likely to trust them, are instead much more likely to be vaccine hesitant.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/arti ... K_apr_2021
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peetee
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by peetee »

Is it true that they are encouraging people to bring forward the date of their second jab? I can’t remember where I heard this (ie truth or rumour). I have checked on the NHS site but see no mention of it.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Jdsk »

AFAIK not a general policy.

But I've just found this:

"Second doses of coronavirus vaccines to be accelerated for over-50s after Indian variant concerns"
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-n ... d-20602026

I'll try to find out what's behind that.

Jonathan

PS: Of course there's ever-increasing knowledge about the effect of the interval (as there is about everything else) eg:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01299-y
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by Jdsk »

Several newspapers have the same story eg:

"Second doses of vaccines will be accelerated for the over-50s and the clinically vulnerable across the country, so they are given eight weeks after the first dose instead of the current 12 weeks."

following comments from the Prime Minister. I can't find any official documents that have changed accordingly.

Jonathan
slowster
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Re: Who's had their second jab?

Post by slowster »

From NHS England twitter account:

https://twitter.com/NHSEngland/status/1 ... 7266203648
On Friday the government announced second dose appointments will be brought forward from 12 to 8 weeks for people aged 50+ who have not yet had theirs.

The NHS will contact you if your appointment needs to be moved, there’s no need to contact the NHS.
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