Possible 10 years for damaging a statue?

[Stevek76]

This issue is grossly overblown in the politically-motivated media.

Sadly all too common. Same with the disorder here last night, the way the media covers it, most people living elsewhere seem to think half the city was full of riots while it was actually constrained to a couple of streets adjacent to the central police station and about 100m in diameter.

As for the 10 years thing, more daft culture war rubbish in my view. The existing criminal damage sentences are proportionate in my view, no reason for them to be higher, and certainly not higher than many crimes involving serious physical and mental harms to actual people.

If the government was really all that concerned about being tough on such matters, perhaps they should be asking themselves why it's taking a whole year for the colston suspects to go from being charged to being at a hearing that will actually determine their case?

[Tangled Metal]

When I was living near Blackburn it was when a few northern towns had riots. When they happened in Blackburn it got reported as the other town riots, disaffected Muslim youth rioting. Reality in the Blackburn case it was two rival Asian families falling out and fighting. It spread into town and apparently a lot of the Muslim community took sides then the youth took it into town and too far. Not a riot in the way other northern towns rioted but still got lumped in with the same issues.

So when the media report disturbances or riots just be aware that local issues don't get to national media without some distortion. I also think BLM movement gets distorted by the violence of probably hangers-on looking for trouble to further their interests.

What's your view on Baden-Powell statue in Poole Harbour?

[Oldjohnw]

It isn't whole streets of architecture but statues. The National Trust didn't pull anything down but instead gave some context. It was heavily criticised in both the press and with many politicians for rewriting history.

It wasn't rewriting history: it was writing history.

I'm not sure which bit you're referring to, but l presume not Newcastle city centre. My point is if you remove Grey's Monument (or the statue at its top) you are removing something which is of intrinsic historical interest and which is genuine to the period.

When tourist guides get there they do a spiel about the 1832 Reform Act and slavery and lighten the mood a bit talking about Earl Grey tea. If he goes then what? Talking about modern art (of which there's no shortage in the city centre) and often an artist who has no direct connection to the NE. (I'm not saying it's therefore bad, but I'm not sure it tells as good a tale).

I was referring to the NT in general. Many of its properties were founded on wealth derived from slavery. They were simply trying to tell the story, not erase it or overstate it much less demolish their properties. But they got very loud criticism from both volunteers, the press and politicians.

[pete75]

It's a fair bet many of the people here calling for this law were quite happy to see statues of Saddam Hussein destroyed in Iraq. Bloody hypocrites.

[Mike Sales]

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[pete75]

What's your view on Baden-Powell statue in Poole Harbour?

Didn't know it had been thrown into the harbour. Obviously not many care as it didn't even make national news.

[Jdsk]

What's your view on Baden-Powell statue in Poole Harbour?

Didn't know it had been thrown into the harbour. Obviously not many care as it didn't even make national news.

Scouting for buoys?

Jonathan

[ossie]

,

[pete75]

What's your view on Baden-Powell statue in Poole Harbour?

Didn't know it had been thrown into the harbour. Obviously not many care as it didn't even make national news.

Scouting for buoys?

Jonathan

[661-Pete]

Stalin.jpg
saddam.jpg
Lenin.jpg

I think your piccies are a bit mixed up: the first two are both of Saddam, and the third of Lenin. But point made.

I'm sure you all know the old (and rather un-PC) joke about European Heaven and Hell:

In European Heaven:
* The policemen are British
* The cooks are French
* The mechanics are German
* The lovers are Italian
* And the organisers are Swiss.
In European Hell:
* The policemen are German
* The cooks are British
* The mechanics are French
* The lovers are Swiss
* And the organisers are Italian.

Yes our policemen used to be wonderful - just like the Laughing Policeman in the song! All Dixon of Dock Green and the like. But then we moved on to Z-Cars, then The Sweeney, and goodness knows what else.... I'm afraid the metaphor doesn't hold good these days, at least not for many people. Which is a sad development.

[kwackers]

Yes our policemen used to be wonderful - just like the Laughing Policeman in the song! All Dixon of Dock Green and the like. But then we moved on to Z-Cars, then The Sweeney, and goodness knows what else.... I'm afraid the metaphor doesn't hold good these days, at least not for many people. Which is a sad development.

I downgraded my opinion of police from 85% to 60% after my accident.
Any plods that can view camera footage of a car coming from behind and knocking one off and then claim I rode into their blind spot and where the driver turned out to be ex-police is well deserving of a drop of 25% and should be grateful for such a small drop in their approval rating.

Probably worse now is that whenever the police are involved in anything (whether it's the Bristol riots or whatever) I'm a lot more suspicious of their role in events than I ever was.
(Not that I ever had blind faith, just that now I have less)

[Mike Sales]

Stalin.jpg
saddam.jpg
Lenin.jpg

I think your piccies are a bit mixed up: the first two are both of Saddam, and the third of Lenin. But point made.

I'm sure you all know the old (and rather un-PC) joke about European Heaven and Hell:

In European Heaven:
* The policemen are British
* The cooks are French
* The mechanics are German
* The lovers are Italian
* And the organisers are Swiss.
In European Hell:
* The policemen are German
* The cooks are British
* The mechanics are French
* The lovers are Swiss
* And the organisers are Italian.

Yes our policemen used to be wonderful - just like the Laughing Policeman in the song! All Dixon of Dock Green and the like. But then we moved on to Z-Cars, then The Sweeney, and goodness knows what else.... I'm afraid the metaphor doesn't hold good these days, at least not for many people. Which is a sad development.

That was careless; I only read the captions on the first two tyrants, they were not mine.

A friend used to be client's rep. on seismic survey boats. He came back from one trip on which the deck crew were French, and the domestic staff Phillipino. He thought it might have been better the other way round.

[thirdcrank]

Everything changes with time but I'll stick with my view that the main thing about the police is that the bourgeoisie come into contact with them much more, even if that contact is through social media.

Edit to correct a mistake. I had put "conduct" when I meant "contact."

[Mike Sales]

Britain is heading towards a system of “paramilitary policing” under controversial new measures proposed by the government which allow them to flex “their muscles” through officers on the ground, an ex-police chief has warned.

Michael Barton, who was chief constable of Durham constabulary until stepping down in 2019, compared the UK government to “repressive regimes” that exert power via their police.

“Or are they happy to be linked to the repressive regimes currently flexing their muscles via their police forces? Fortunately, in the UK we are not a paramilitary-style police force. But these powers dangerously edge in that direction.

“Police chiefs will be seen as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed when it comes to protest. Democracies thrive on protest. This government has condemned what has happened in the Ukraine but those same protesters would fall foul of our new laws.”

Fahy, the former chief constable of Greater Manchester police and former vice-chair of the police chiefs’ body, said the proposed protest laws were a mistake and posed a danger for policing.

He said lessons from the past suggested danger, citing the quashing this week of 1970s convictions of trade union activists including the actor Ricky Tomlinson as a warning from history.

“It is short-term and politically driven,” he said. “It is a reaction to what happened with Extinction Rebellion and Black Lives Matter [protests], in the same way Ricky Tomlinson was a reaction to the industrial strife of the 1970s. Policing was drawn into a particular stance and pose.

“It reminds me of the miners’ strike when policing was mobilised for a political reason. It took policing a long time to recover. Policing should be very careful not to be drawn into the situation of being arbiters of which protests can go ahead, and become stuck in the middle. The policing of protest can cause long-term damage.”

Fahy added: “Policing is not always about the majority, sometimes it is about protecting rights of the minority. I’m not sure a mature democracy should have the police deciding which protests should go ahead.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/policing-bill-paramilitary-warning-b1823618.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/28/protest-laws-move-uk-towards-paramilitary-policing-says-former-chief

[Jdsk]

Yes.

But of course "It couldn't happen here"...

Jonathan