should politics be banned on the forum?

[Vorpal]

Please stop the bickering & directly addressing others on the forum with terms that are likely to offend them.

Thanks.

Do you have a guide as to "terms that are likely to offend" others? Given the wide range of language that appears to "offend" some posters, it would be useful if the mods gave us a clue.

There is not a guide, and I think you understand the difficulty in creating such a guide. However, applying labels to people or making assumptions about them, is not necessary, and may offend. And part of the problem is the 'tit-for-tat' that such things often prompt, which can easily spiral into insults and slanging.

For example, calling someone a lefty or a liberal may prompt responding with calling someone right-wing. None of the terms are ones that will necessarily offend, but they can be used dismissively, or derogatorily, and someone who feels they are centrist or left-leaning may well be insulted by being called right-wing. The problem is exacerbated when people add emotive labels, like 'bleeding heart', 'virtue signalling', 'xenophobic', etc. These things are unnecessary, don't contribute to discussion, and generally get people wound up. That sort of thing was perpetually a problem with the Brexit thread.

When people push the boundaries of politeness to make a point, or feel they gotten one up on someone, they really need to reconsider if there isn't a way to phrase things that are less likely to prompt an irritated repartee, or insults in return. Or maybe just not post on that topic for a bit.

Those who do not find the above to be enough of a 'clue' should, perhaps, reconsider whether this forum is the place for them.

[mjr]

Unfortunately the only way to reduce not stop the bickering is by banning political threads. The bickering that remains will be less common and usually revolve around contentious technical topics which is cycle related. To stop them you'd be stopping part of what a cycling forum best serves its users with.

Cycling is a political act, so banning political threads would mean almost all cycling topics.

Plus, there are many elections in about a month that affect cycling and I am sure CUK will be encouraging people to vote for cycling for everyone.

[661-Pete]

Cycling is a political act...

I was about to say, "what *********!" - but in keeping with the "no personal attacks" principle, I'll desist. Indeed, perhaps it depends on what you mean by a 'political act', anyway.

Perhaps everything we do is a 'political act'? Otherwise, I find it hard to imagine anything political about putting the panniers on the bike and popping down to the supermarket for a bit of shopping....

But then again: by ostentatiously being seen locking up the bike at the cycle stands, in full view of other shoppers cruising around in search of a space, or stepping out of their car fumbling for their bank card for the parking fee .... perhaps I am making a 'political statement' of some kind...?

[Mike Sales]

But then again: by ostentatiously being seen locking up the bike at the cycle stands, in full view of other shoppers cruising around in search of a space, or stepping out of their car fumbling for their bank card for the parking fee .... perhaps I am making a 'political statement' of some kind...?

Is cycling the latest front in the culture wars?

[thirdcrank]

With the notable exception of Brexit, I think the thread is about party politics, rather than politics = any policy issue.

[mjr]

But then again: by ostentatiously being seen locking up the bike at the cycle stands, in full view of other shoppers cruising around in search of a space, or stepping out of their car fumbling for their bank card for the parking fee .... perhaps I am making a 'political statement' of some kind...?

Is cycling the latest front in the culture wars?

Maybe, but on whose side? Johnson's Conservative government are very much in favour of it as a cheap way to meet transport, pollution and covid challenges, whereas borough Conservatives often oppose it as getting in the way of their core motoring support base, while county Conservatives seem split between those who think cycling makes economic sense (even if only at the level of keeping the county budget balanced with funding from Johnson) and those who seem wary of the rural workers having easier access to cheaper rural-urban transport that doesn't limit their travel after 6pm.

I'm not sure if it's a party political issue and where other parties besides the Greens (in favour) and Garage's lot (totally against) stand because it's not a noticeable part of their county campaigns and it's been a while since they had power near me.

[Ben@Forest]

But then again: by ostentatiously being seen locking up the bike at the cycle stands, in full view of other shoppers cruising around in search of a space, or stepping out of their car fumbling for their bank card for the parking fee .... perhaps I am making a 'political statement' of some kind...?

I'd have thought that excluding professional cyclists, and possibly excepting Chris Boardman, who has a racing pedigree, the two people most associated with cycling in recent years are Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn (and I don't mean Boris bikes for Johnson).

[Mike Sales]

In theory cycling is claimed by many politicians as a good thing to be encouraged, but only, as we often see, up to a point.
I was also thinking of those attempts to characterise cyclists as self-entitled and middle class.
We are often called smug and attacked for wanting to improve the environment at the expense of ordinary people.
LTNs are said to move traffic from leafy middle class roads to streets where poorer people live.

Twitter from a Conservative staffer, Samia Hersi.

Shocked to see how @TFL
and @TowerHamletsNow
cycle route on Burdett Road to Westferry has pushed this bus stop into the main road forcing cars to drive around the bus and into the opposite lane. Are cycle routes so important to Labour that they are willing to endanger lives?

and a reply,

Its a shocking to say but @towerhamletsnow
@TH_Labour
@mayorjohnbiggs
& his LTN zealots don't care about anything else except cycle routes - not interested in disabled, elderly, emergency services, workers, bus travellers, etc ... all they want is road mayhem to allow cycling.

These tweeters certainly seem to be trying to make it into a party issue.

[mikeymo]

I disagree with that statement which was made earlier in this thread.

There, hopefully that's anodyne enough for the mods. No "personal attack", no "offensive" use of terms like left/right. In fact I've taken care not to "directly address" the poster, in case they get upset.

[Psamathe]

...the two people most associated with cycling in recent years are Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn (and I don't mean Boris bikes for Johnson).

Would that be the Johnson who lies about the ficticious theft of his bike made-up for political purposes?

Boris Johnson claimed his bike had been stolen after previously saying it broke
The former foreign secretary told a Tory leadership debate on Monday that the last time he cried was when his cycle - nicknamed “Bikey” - was stolen from outside parliament.

And he used the anecdote to take a swipe at his successor as London mayor, claiming that the bicycle had been chained to railings across the capital without incident during his time in office, only to be stolen after Sadiq Khan entered City Hall.

Using the tale to bolster his call for 20,000 new police officers
...
However, doubts were raised over the anecdote by a column written by the would-be Prime Minister in 2014, in which he said that Bikey had been written off after its frame snapped when he rode it into a pothole concealed by a puddle during a storm.

One version or the other is a lie.

Ian

[661-Pete]

..... the two people most associated with cycling in recent years are Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn ....

I think that says more about Brownie points than political policy...

[thirdcrank]

..... the two people most associated with cycling in recent years are Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn ....

I think that says more about Brownie points than political policy...

I thought Andrew Michell was up there and gong back a bit, Norman Tebbit's dad

[mjr]

In theory cycling is claimed by many politicians as a good thing to be encouraged, but only, as we often see, up to a point.
I was also thinking of those attempts to characterise cyclists as self-entitled and middle class.
We are often called smug and attacked for wanting to improve the environment at the expense of ordinary people.
LTNs are said to move traffic from leafy middle class roads to streets where poorer people live.

That was debunked elsewhere, wasn't it?

Also, there's the more general political point of this seeming like yet another appearance of Schrödinger's Cyclist, too poor to own a car so we don't want to encourage them, yet simultaneously middle class so encouraging them would be elitist.

Twitter from a Conservative staffer, Samia Hersi.

Shocked to see how @TFL
and @TowerHamletsNow
cycle route on Burdett Road to Westferry has pushed this bus stop into the main road forcing cars to drive around the bus and into the opposite lane. Are cycle routes so important to Labour that they are willing to endanger lives?

I do hope someone reminded Samia Hersi that cars do not drive, motorists do, and they are not forced to overtake buses. They can always wait behind them, like most of us who live on A roads without big bus stop laybys.

and a reply,

Its a shocking to say but @towerhamletsnow
@TH_Labour
@mayorjohnbiggs
& his LTN zealots don't care about anything else except cycle routes - not interested in disabled, elderly, emergency services, workers, bus travellers, etc ... all they want is road mayhem to allow cycling.

These tweeters certainly seem to be trying to make it into a party issue.

They seem to be making it a party issue in a particularly bizarre way, because the Conservative gov.uk's current transport policy is that "Residential side streets across the country can be blighted by rat-running. Low-traffic neighbourhoods will be created in many more groups of residential streets by installing point closures – for example, bollards or planters – on some of the roads. It would still be possible to access any road in the area, but motor traffic would not be able to use the roads as through routes." (Gear Change, page 18)

So, they are criticising the Labour borough and mayor for implementing Conservative policy!

[661-Pete]

I thought Andrew Michell was up there and gong back a bit, Norman Tebbit's dad

Ah yes! I remember both those. The first was more about calling someone a 'pleb', wasn't it? But the second! Some probably assume that Mr T originated the phrase "On yer bike!" but I think that he never uttered those exact words; also they pre-date him - and more generally mean "get away!" or "give over!" rather than "go and find work!".

Tebbit's bike reference was certainly memorable, but I don't think there was anything about the politics of cycling in it.

[Jdsk]

"I grew up in the 30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot; he got on his bike and looked for work and he kept looking 'til he found it."

Jonathan