should politics be banned on the forum?

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Bonzo Banana
Posts: 416
Joined: 5 Feb 2017, 11:58am

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Bonzo Banana »

Syd wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 12:16pm I don’t post in any of the political forums, primarily as my political leanings are at odds with what appears to be a majority here.

Happy to let those who want to debate to do so as it doesn’t impact where I choose to post.
It's not really debate though is it, often it just becomes abusive with many childish remarks often from people who have very little understanding of the subject matter but seem very angry. Would you call two sets of football hooligans shouting abuse at each other debate? Debating is wonderful but really it needs two sides with mutual respect for each other despite the contrasting views . Many forums simply don't allow politics because a huge number of people simply get too angry to maintain civility to other forum members. I would say it was desirable for forums to be friendly sites rather than some sort of text version of the Jerry Springer show.

Also Cycling UK is meant to be an independent charity focused on promoting and supporting cycling. I would of thought such charities would try to remain independent of politics even in their forums.
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Hellhound
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Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Hellhound »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 2:37pm Would you call two sets of football hooligans shouting abuse at each other debate?
Football fans shout abuse at each other and it's just banter.
Football Hooligans are very organised and fight each other.They aren't the ones you see with their teams scarf/hat/shirt on hurling abuse at each other and the ref/linesmen/players :wink:
So yes I would called footy banter a type of debate!
Oldjohnw
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Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Oldjohnw »

This forum is not a charity, as far as I know.
John
Syd
Posts: 1230
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Syd »

Bonzo Banana wrote:
It's not really debate though is it,
I was being polite Image

If, however, folk want to behave like that on a forum then so be it. Just leave it on the forum and don’t take it away with you into the real world.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by reohn2 »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 2:37pm

It's not really debate though is it,
Point me to where it isn't debate.
often it just becomes abusive with many childish remarks often from people who have very little understanding of the subject matter but seem very angry
There are childish remarks occassionally but they're far and few between,I've been on the receiving end of them from time to time,it's water off a duck's back,infact it shows those people have run out of argument and so resort to such name calling if not directly then indirectly.

People tend to get angry at others trying to defend the indefensible such as a government leading the country,over a long period of time,into abject chaos and poverty.

Would you call two sets of football hooligans shouting abuse at each other debate?
No.
Debating is wonderful but really it needs two sides with mutual respect for each other despite the contrasting views
.
I for one have repect for the other side's POV,but won't tolerate being told,eg;in the Brexit case,that all's going well and dandy when I know it isn't,so I put my opposing POV forward with solid reasons for it..
Many forums simply don't allow politics because a huge number of people simply get too angry to maintain civility to other forum members. I would say it was desirable for forums to be friendly sites rather than some sort of text version of the Jerry Springer show.

That's upto other forums,this forum is different,it's more open to political debate.
I for one try my best to remain civil toward other forum members and I apologise if I've been otherwise or it's pointed out I'm in the wrong.
Who's Jerry Springer?
Also Cycling UK is meant to be an independent charity focused on promoting and supporting cycling. I would of thought such charities would try to remain independent of politics even in their forums.
This forum is an open forum and AFAIA isn't funded by the CUK.
It being an 'Independent charity' is open to debate.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
PhilD28
Posts: 352
Joined: 26 Sep 2016, 8:31am

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by PhilD28 »

Non political eh, source Cycling UK website:

“Campaigning for Cyclists
Then

Campaigning has been in our DNA from the start. It had to be, bearing in mind the amount of anti-cycling sentiment that has existed ever since the first boneshakers appeared on roads in 1867.

One of the greatest victories in CTC’s history came in 1888, when a skilfully-waged campaign led to the Local Government Act recognising cycles as ‘carriages’ with the right to use roads for the first time – legislation so important, it was dubbed the ‘Cyclists’ Magna Carta’.

Until then, downtrodden cyclists had suffered under unreasonable bylaws that differed from one local authority to the next. For example, in Southampton cyclists were “compelled to dismount if signalled by a horse rider or carriage driver”.

That all changed after Parliament agreed a motion proposed by Sir John Dorington, MP for Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, on behalf of CTC. Sir John was a CTC member and his club colleagues bombarded MPs with letters calling for their support.

Now

With your help, we’ve been lobbying MPs ever since that landmark 1888 Act – never more so than last year, when politicians of all major parties debated funding for cycling at Westminster Hall.

Cycling UK vigorously campaigned for some of the Government’s vast £15billion roads budget over the next five years to be reallocated to CWIS (Cycling and Walking Investment Strategy), which was set to receive a derisory £300million.

Ahead of the Westminster Hall debate, Cycling UK set up an online action enabling members to email their local MP to persuade them to attend and speak up in support of investment for cycling. We also provided MPs with a briefing document and spoke to them on the day.

With your help, we will continue to campaign for at least £10 per head per year to be invested in cycling
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Philip Benstead
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Location: Victoria , London

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Philip Benstead »

PhilD28 wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 3:49pm Non political eh, source Cycling UK website:

“Campaigning for Cyclists
Then

Campaigning has been in our DNA from the start. It had to be, bearing in mind the amount of anti-cycling sentiment that has existed ever since the first boneshakers appeared on roads in 1867.

One of the greatest victories in CTC’s history came in 1888, when a skilfully-waged campaign led to the Local Government Act recognising cycles as ‘carriages’ with the right to use roads for the first time – legislation so important, it was dubbed the ‘Cyclists’ Magna Carta’.

Until then, downtrodden cyclists had suffered under unreasonable bylaws that differed from one local authority to the next. For example, in Southampton cyclists were “compelled to dismount if signalled by a horse rider or carriage driver”.

That all changed after Parliament agreed a motion proposed by Sir John Dorington, MP for Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, on behalf of CTC. Sir John was a CTC member and his club colleagues bombarded MPs with letters calling for their support.

Now

With your help, we’ve been lobbying MPs ever since that landmark 1888 Act – never more so than last year, when politicians of all major parties debated funding for cycling at Westminster Hall.

Cycling UK vigorously campaigned for some of the Government’s vast £15billion roads budget over the next five years to be reallocated to CWIS (Cycling and Walking Investment Strategy), which was set to receive a derisory £300million.

Ahead of the Westminster Hall debate, Cycling UK set up an online action enabling members to email their local MP to persuade them to attend and speak up in support of investment for cycling. We also provided MPs with a briefing document and spoke to them on the day.

With your help, we will continue to campaign for at least £10 per head per year to be invested in cycling
Well said SIR/MADAM
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
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Philip Benstead
Posts: 1944
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Location: Victoria , London

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Philip Benstead »

reohn2 wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 3:25pm
Bonzo Banana wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 2:37pm

It's not really debate though is it,
Point me to where it isn't debate.
often it just becomes abusive with many childish remarks often from people who have very little understanding of the subject matter but seem very angry
There are childish remarks occassionally but they're far and few between,I've been on the receiving end of them from time to time,it's water off a duck's back,infact it shows those people have run out of argument and so resort to such name calling if not directly then indirectly.

People tend to get angry at others trying to defend the indefensible such as a government leading the country,over a long period of time,into abject chaos and poverty.

Would you call two sets of football hooligans shouting abuse at each other debate?
No.
Debating is wonderful but really it needs two sides with mutual respect for each other despite the contrasting views
.
I for one have repect for the other side's POV,but won't tolerate being told,eg;in the Brexit case,that all's going well and dandy when I know it isn't,so I put my opposing POV forward with solid reasons for it..
Many forums simply don't allow politics because a huge number of people simply get too angry to maintain civility to other forum members. I would say it was desirable for forums to be friendly sites rather than some sort of text version of the Jerry Springer show.

That's upto other forums,this forum is different,it's more open to political debate.
I for one try my best to remain civil toward other forum members and I apologise if I've been otherwise or it's pointed out I'm in the wrong.
Who's Jerry Springer?
Also Cycling UK is meant to be an independent charity focused on promoting and supporting cycling. I would of thought such charities would try to remain independent of politics even in their forums.
This forum is an open forum and AFAIA isn't funded by the CUK.
It being an 'Independent charity' is open to debate.
YES AGREED
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Tangled Metal »

😆

Proving my pov. Also why I no longer give it on here. Well that often anymore. Crack on until you get your echo chamber!
Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Tangled Metal wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 4:17pm 😆

Proving my pov. Also why I no longer give it on here. Well that often anymore. Crack on until you get your echo chamber!
I believe this thread is about politics and in the tea shop! :D
John
PhilD28
Posts: 352
Joined: 26 Sep 2016, 8:31am

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by PhilD28 »

The old CTC had it’s roots in the politics as it affected cycling as did the Clarions (of which I was a member), there was also very strong connections with socialism.
I go back a fair way myself with this having first joined the CTC in 1964.

It can be argued that all politics affects cycling in one way or another, who could argue that whichever government is in power, they are able to influence our infrastructure to either the benefit or detriment of cyclists. Contrast Holland with the UK and how politics can have a direct and lasting effect on our experience on the roads.

I believe there is indeed a place for politics in the Tea Shop.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by reohn2 »

Tangled Metal wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 4:17pm 😆

Proving my pov. Also why I no longer give it on here. Well that often anymore. Crack on until you get your echo chamber!
My bold

Which POV is that then?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Psamathe »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 2:37pm
Syd wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 12:16pm I don’t post in any of the political forums, primarily as my political leanings are at odds with what appears to be a majority here.

Happy to let those who want to debate to do so as it doesn’t impact where I choose to post.
It's not really debate though is it, often it just becomes abusive with many childish remarks often from people who have very little understanding of the subject matter but seem very angry. Would you call two sets of football hooligans shouting abuse at each other debate? Debating is wonderful but really it needs two sides with mutual respect for each other despite the contrasting views . Many forums simply don't allow politics because a huge number of people simply get too angry to maintain civility to other forum members. I would say it was desirable for forums to be friendly sites rather than some sort of text version of the Jerry Springer show.
.....
You mean "in your opinion ..." and your opinion is coloured by your dismissal of a particular subject matter. So you are in effect saying that you don't value it, you are not obliged to participate, yet you want in banned to stop others (who do see a value).
Bonzo Banana wrote: 18 Oct 2021, 2:37pm ...Also Cycling UK is meant to be an independent charity focused on promoting and supporting cycling. I would of thought such charities would try to remain independent of politics even in their forums.
Promoting and encouraging cycling also means campaigning for better cycle facilities, safer streets, more appropriate Highway Code, etc. and that very quickly get political. I can't remember when but not that long ago that CUK AGM voted to reduce promotion of holiday flights, the board saying "Cycling UK wishes to be part of both this and wider discussions on the part that flying contributes to carbon footprints and climate change. ...". How does that fit in with the very limited "promoting and supporting cycling"?

Ian
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NUKe
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Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by NUKe »

I stopped reading anything political on here a while go in the realisation that no one ever changes their mind based upon the rantings of the otherside, all I would either do is agree with other person or wind them up , so what's the point. In real life I quite happily sup with people of the opposite political persuasion, we managed to get by without politics and if it comes up we generally agree to disagree. So its easier just to ignore politics on here.
NUKe
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Oldjohnw
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Re: should politics be banned on the forum?

Post by Oldjohnw »

People have different views to you or me are not necessarily ranting. It does automatically follow.
John
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