Ex-Post Office CEO Paula Vennells

[PH]

Lets not forget that it's the courts who convicted these innocent people and whatever the failing of the PO management, this is also a very poor reflection on the UK's legal system.

[thirdcrank]

The Post Office is unusual in that it still has what might be termed "company police." Not only that, but it still conducts its own private prosecutions. This may have been ok in the far-off days when it started and the Royal Mail was a service of the Crown, but as this all shows it's an inappropriate set-up for a private company. This from the HoC Justice Select Committee last October.

The Post Office is not a typical private prosecutor. Many private organisations that bring private prosecutions engage external law firms and specialist investigators to conduct the prosecutions on their behalf. Conversely, the Post Office relied on its own internal investigators and lawyers to conduct the prosecution of its own workers. Edmonds Marshall McMahon, a law firm which specialise in private prosecutions, point out that the Post Office, due to historic origins as a public body that brought prosecutions, retained “its own team of (in-house) prosecution lawyers, which is atypical for a commercial organisation”

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... %20workers.

ie The Post Office has remained outside reforms such as the establishment of the Crown Prosecution Service
=============================================================
PS Forgot to include that the Justice Select Committee's investigation was triggered by a request from the Criminal Cases Review Commission at the same time as it referred a batch of cases to the Court of Appeal

Since 1991 the Post Office has successfully prosecuted more than 900 of its own workers for fraud and similar offences. A significant number of those cases have, however, been referred to the Court of Appeal after doubts were raised about whether the operation of the Post Office’s Horizon IT system may have been responsible for financial discrepancies that gave rise to some prosecutions. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) asked us to consider aspects of the private prosecution system in England and Wales in June, on the same day it referred new cases to the Court of Appeal for reconsideration.

Same link as above

[merseymouth]

Morning, Thirdcrank is spot on about the asinine nature of the Royal Mail Police? They are their own prosecuting authority, no referral to the CPS. That is exactly like various Port Police bodies. They may also not be compliant with PACE, the Port of Liverpool stood outside of that requirement until I took them apart!
Accountability is not their style! Quite why such situations have been allowed to continue is beyond me. MM

[PH]

The other august journal that's been covering this diligently and campaigning for the victims has been the Daily Mail. But whisper that here... it doesn't fit the groupthink...

That the Daily Mail is capable of some excellent journalism shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, it employs some very talented journalists. That isn't an excuse for it's racist, xenophobic, right wing stance on just about every issue. Can you imagine them running a similar campaign for anyone wrongly accused of benefit fraud?

[thirdcrank]

I've posted before that if I'm looking for a report of court proceedings - not a "court report" in the the sense of a record of a judgment - with detail of evidence given and submissions made, then the Daily Mail is often the best, or only bet, unless it's been tried somewhere which still has a good local rag with its own court reporter. Manchester Evening News comes to mind.

My link to Private Eye above, which seems to have triggered this part of the discussion, was simply because it has just published a "special" with everything in one place.

There's a lot to take in, including the Post Office's arguably squalid attempt to question the integrity of the judge Mt Justice Fraser in the compo case involving an earlier batch of convictions quashed on appeal.

[slowster]

Vennells and her fellow directors were able to act as they did because lower level (but presumably still fairly well paid/senior) personnel in the Post Office and Fujitsu were willing to conceal evidence (in the case of those responsible for the prosecutions) or perjure themselves. According to the Private Eye article, a barrister who acted for the Post Office in those private prosecutions had to warn the Post Office's in-house lawyers who prepared the prosecution cases that they were failing in their duty of disclosure to the defence. Software engineers and others repeatedly lied to courts that the Horizon IT system was not at fault.

The likes of Vennells will never be appropriately punished, because they are able to insulate themselves from legal jeopardy by letting and getting others to do their dirty work.

However, if those individuals who perjured themselves and those in the PO who concealed evidence were prosecuted and convicted for perjury, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, and/or misconduct in public office (the PO is Govt. owned and its power to prosecute may mean those employees are 'public officers' for the purpose of the offence), and given severe sentences, it would make it harder for similar miscarriages to happen in future, because the likes of Vennells would not so easily get people to do their dirty work.

The failure to prosecute/convict for perjury in the last few decades when there have been major miscarriages of justice has undermined the justice system, e.g. the Guildford Four, Cardiff Three etc. People do it because - based on past experience - they expect to get away with it.

[6.5_lives_left]

I know it's a light hearted comment to make on such a serious matter but the depiction in the Private Eye special of the rogues gallery of responsible individuals as postages stamps with a third class denomination was so appropriate.

[Jdsk]

The government has agreed that the taxpayer will foot the substantial compensation bill for former Post Office workers who were wrongly convicted of theft due to the defective Horizon IT system.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... d-of-theft

Jonathan

[PH]

The government has agreed that the taxpayer will foot the substantial compensation bill for former Post Office workers who were wrongly convicted of theft due to the defective Horizon IT system.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... d-of-theft

Jonathan

Who else did anyone think was going to pay it?
The Post Office is owned by the government, at arms length, but they are the only shareholder.

[thirdcrank]

That Grauniad piece seems to ignore the point that the government has written off the entire value of the stake it retained in the Post Office at privatisation. (This was reported in the business section of the Daily Telegraph within the last couple of months.)

IIRC it was Baron (formerly plain Vince) Cable who once commented on privatisation of profit, while leaving risk to the public to pick up. Ironic, then, that he oversaw this privatisation.

On the postage stamps theme, I recently consulted the Royal Mail website over the price of stamps and it proudly shows Henry VIII as its founder. He'd be pleased his management style still prevails

[richardfm]

That Grauniad piece seems to ignore the point that the government has written off the entire value of the stake it retained in the Post Office at privatisation. (This was reported in the business section of the Daily Telegraph within the last couple of months.)

IIRC it was Baron (formerly plain Vince) Cable who once commented on privatisation of profit, while leaving risk to the public to pick up. Ironic, then, that he oversaw this privatisation.

On the postage stamps theme, I recently consulted the Royal Mail website over the price of stamps and it proudly shows Henry VIII as its founder. He'd be pleased his management style still prevails

Are you confusing Royal Mail and the Post Office? The former was privatised, the latter wasn't. The following is from https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2-2013.pdf
"Privatising Royal Mail means privatising the Post Office
No, it doesn't. Royal Mail and the Post Office are separate companies with independent Boards.
Royal Mail is the company that delivers parcels and letters – the provider of the universal postal
service. The Post Office is the nationwide network of branches offering a range of postal,
Government and financial services. The Post Office is not for sale."

[thirdcrank]

Thanks for the correction
================================
PS I've found the Telegraph report but I think it's behind a paywall

In its annual report, the Department for Business said the value of its holding in Post Office Ltd had plummeted from £145m to “nil” in the year to March 31.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... s-scandal/

[thirdcrank]

Post Office scandal: Public inquiry to examine wrongful convictions

The wrongful convictions of hundreds of sub-postmasters and mistresses will be examined by a public inquiry starting on Monday.

Between 2000 and 2014, more than 700 sub-postmasters were wrongly accused of theft, fraud and false accounting due to a flaw in a computer system Horizon.

A total of 72 former sub-postmasters have had their names cleared so far.

The cases constitute the most widespread miscarriage of justice in British legal history (my bold)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60369875

Would anybody like to outline how our legal system helped prevent these miscarriages of justice?

(I have no personal interest in this, other than as Private Eye subscriber and a taxpayer helping foot the compo bill.)

[simonineaston]

I feel so sorry for those convicted who appear to be, almost without exception, ordinary men & women just trying to make a decent living for them and their family and who, for many, this travesty was just too much... The then CEO was - perhaps still is - a practicing Christian. Work that one out. Let's hope God has taken note and will be having a word with her when she turns up.

[reohn2]

One can only hope that the victims of this travesty are compensated for their suffering and the people responsible are found and punished.
It's an utter disgrace,one of many across a panapoly of miscarriages of justice in these sickly islands