Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

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661-Pete
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by 661-Pete »

richardfm wrote: 12 May 2021, 11:55pm Surely only someone with mental health issues would take their own life?
That's what coroners used to rule, wasn't it? "...while the balance of his/her mind was disturbed" or similar phraseology? But maybe I'm unjustly maligning the coroner (must be a stressful job - has anyone on here been one?).

Anyway, consider this case, of an elderly lady (in her 90s) whom I knew. She lived in a private care home in Reigate, close to where my mother lived. This lady's daughter was a close friend of my mother's. The daughter lived in north London, and found it quite a trek to come and visit her mother, but she managed it fairly often (every two or three weeks I think) - she always used to pop in and see my mother after visiting her mother. OK - I suppose the old lady was reasonably well off in the circumstances, if perhaps somewhat bored with her lifestyle. From what I remember of her, late in her life, no sign of mental disorder - certainly not dementia or anything like that. But I'm no expert.

One day she evidently made up her mind. She carefully tidied up her room. She said a sort of veiled 'goodbye' to her friends in the home, and returned all the books and other items she'd borrowed from them. Then she went back to her upstairs bedroom and climbed out of the window.

My mother told me that it made the front page of the local rag. I don't know what the Coroner's verdict was.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

richardfm wrote: 12 May 2021, 11:55pm
pwa wrote: 10 May 2021, 5:32am ....In principle I have no objection to someone without mental health issues taking their own life....
Surely only someone with mental health issues would take their own life?

People approaching the end of a terminal illness may well wish to die with dignity.

Assisted dying needs to be very carefully dealt with - particularly with respect to things like life insurance, as well as inheritance and the potential pressures that people may feel (whether or not those pressures are suggested by others, or only exist in the person's own head).

Whilst the idea has reasonable support the details are very sticky.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
ClappedOut
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by ClappedOut »

I think assisted dying is a very different situation from suicide.
Assisted dying is an impossible situation with no medical chance of improvement and quality of life.

Suicide I believe is a Mental Heath issue an strongly related to abuse, money, debt, career, relationships etc- all with time and talking can be worked through if the people can be helped in time.
pwa
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by pwa »

ClappedOut wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:31pm I think assisted dying is a very different situation from suicide.
Assisted dying is an impossible situation with no medical chance of improvement and quality of life.

Suicide I believe is a Mental Heath issue an strongly related to abuse, money, debt, career, relationships etc- all with time and talking can be worked through if the people can be helped in time.
I'm sure that is correct in a lot of cases, but not all. Imagine if you lose your family members in an accident or because you just outlive them, and find your life not worth living. That isn't mental illness. You would hopefully get some help in finding a way of making a new life, but you could still end up deciding that ending your life is preferable to living without your loved ones. But the rest of us should offer people in that situation alternatives, so that their suicide is not the result of not getting help.
ClappedOut
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by ClappedOut »

pwa wrote: 14 May 2021, 7:00am
ClappedOut wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:31pm I think assisted dying is a very different situation from suicide.
Assisted dying is an impossible situation with no medical chance of improvement and quality of life.

Suicide I believe is a Mental Heath issue an strongly related to abuse, money, debt, career, relationships etc- all with time and talking can be worked through if the people can be helped in time.
I'm sure that is correct in a lot of cases, but not all. Imagine if you lose your family members in an accident or because you just outlive them, and find your life not worth living. That isn't mental illness. You would hopefully get some help in finding a way of making a new life, but you could still end up deciding that ending your life is preferable to living without your loved ones. But the rest of us should offer people in that situation alternatives, so that their suicide is not the result of not getting help.
So we are really talking about the capacity of informed choice.
The most shocking thing from seeing our friend receive absolutely no support and also a loop Lou relative (by marriage not blood thankfully)

At least in our area mental health services are non existent and the "Pandemic" has been an excuse to remove telephone consultations etc which involve zero contact and can be done from home.
pwa
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Re: Suicide - the last taboo? Should it be talked about?

Post by pwa »

ClappedOut wrote: 14 May 2021, 8:15am
pwa wrote: 14 May 2021, 7:00am
ClappedOut wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:31pm I think assisted dying is a very different situation from suicide.
Assisted dying is an impossible situation with no medical chance of improvement and quality of life.

Suicide I believe is a Mental Heath issue an strongly related to abuse, money, debt, career, relationships etc- all with time and talking can be worked through if the people can be helped in time.
I'm sure that is correct in a lot of cases, but not all. Imagine if you lose your family members in an accident or because you just outlive them, and find your life not worth living. That isn't mental illness. You would hopefully get some help in finding a way of making a new life, but you could still end up deciding that ending your life is preferable to living without your loved ones. But the rest of us should offer people in that situation alternatives, so that their suicide is not the result of not getting help.
So we are really talking about the capacity of informed choice.
The most shocking thing from seeing our friend receive absolutely no support and also a loop Lou relative (by marriage not blood thankfully)

At least in our area mental health services are non existent and the "Pandemic" has been an excuse to remove telephone consultations etc which involve zero contact and can be done from home.
Services for people with mental health issues have always been patchy at best. A relative of mine reached out for help during a period of turmoil and eventually heard back from the local health provision about five years later, when the mental health issues had thankfully passed. I am sure the pandemic has made things worse.

And while I think, in principle, someone wishing to end their life can be of sound mind, it is difficult for the rest of us to know whether that is the case. As a default we have to suspect mental illness, at least until we are sure that is not the case.
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