Bitcoin...

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simonineaston
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Bitcoin...

Post by simonineaston »

Anyone out there in Cycling UK-world bought any bitcoin, or would like to comment, frothing at the mouth and high of BP, on the iniquity / unsustainability / craziness of it all?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jdsk
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Jdsk »

Absolutely fascinating.

Worried about the energy costs, see below.

For personal investment: only if you're really really prepared to lose it all.

Jonathan

PS: There's a great recent article in the Economist about governmental digital currencies:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/ ... hat-matter

...

Image
Last edited by Jdsk on 18 May 2021, 4:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
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661-Pete
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by 661-Pete »

I think, when I was a kid, I once borrowed my dad's hacksaw and sawed a halfpenny in half, just to see what it would look like. For all I know the pieces may still be lurking in a drawer somewhere. Does that count ('bitcoin' = 'bits of coin')??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Serious answer: no way! Apart from the odious Mr <s>Muck</s> (sorry, typo, "Musk") and the odd fraudster, I don't see the point. And apparently their carbon footprint is phenomenal - though search me if I understand why! :|
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
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simonineaston
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by simonineaston »

I'm mates with a couple of IT professionals and they attempted with little success to explain the process of "mining BTC" at the week-end... said success being in inverse proportion to the number of rounds - strong stuff those NewTown Park beers... As has been noted, the mining process is somehow prodigeously energy-dependant. Weird.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Stevek76
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Stevek76 »

Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies) fairly much has two uses. a) to use for money or goods transactions of a dubious nature & b) speculation in the more pure gambling sense, high reward, very high risk.

As a practical currency they are pretty useless. The energy use is daft (as is the demand upon graphics cards for those who just want a pc to play games on, or even research institutions wanting to build supercomputers) & they are very unstable, largely due to being backed by absolutely nothing tangible.

They're also the kind of thing that attracts the kind of weird, very defensive, 'techbro' fan base so musk's recent pump and dump will probably leave a few feeling conflicted :)

It's also of course the origin of a recent tech fad: blockchain. Exploited by tech 'consultants/entrepreneurs' (i.e. cowboys) to flog vague ideas to tech illiterate investors and then run off with their cash.
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Mick F
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Mick F »

661-Pete wrote: 17 May 2021, 11:50am I think, when I was a kid, I once borrowed my dad's hacksaw and sawed a halfpenny in half .............
Defacing the coins of the realm used to be an offence I believe.

We have a little chest of drawers ....... long story, but it was made as a tool chest apprentice piece by someone we knew years and years ago .................. the drawers had finger-holes and I fitted wooden knobs but needed washers to cover the holes on the inside.

I used 2p coins and drilled holes in them to take the screws into the back of the wooden knobs.
This goes back to the mid 1980s and the chest is still in use.

Originally made by (Bill Paul) the apprentice in the 1950s.
Mick F. Cornwall
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661-Pete
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by 661-Pete »

Mick F wrote: 17 May 2021, 3:40pmDefacing the coins of the realm used to be an offence I believe.
What was the penalty? Was it considered High Treason (sentence: hanged by the neck until dead) :shock: ? After all the poor old queen's head must have taken some damage...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Psamathe
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Psamathe »

I can see and appreciate the motives behind crypo-currencies; in part a reaction to Governments tracking and recording everything we do. And as one of the first that has gained traction there are bound to be hick-ups and unforeseen issues. The question become how quickly we can learn from the experience and avoid.

What worries me is not so much BitCoin and its energy use (that can and will likely disappear fairly quickly as mining gets ever more resource intensive and value does not follow the same cost path). What worries me more is how Blockchain is being heralded as the future for everything and whilst implementations are likely to become more energy efficient the levels of processing and duplication and communications are going to be challenging from a sustainability perspective. So as the technology is adopted in ever wider circles without significant sustainability/energy improvements so the problem get a lot worse.

Ian
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Mick F
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Mick F »

Just Googling the coinage act, and from what I read briefly, it's illegal to deface and to destroy coins and notes.
Not got time to delve deeper, so signing off now.

Please argue amongst yourselves in my absence! :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall
Psamathe
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Psamathe »

Amazing/shocking report about a different aspect of BitCoin. Its well reported about the energy use of the system (and thus its climate impacts) but it seems there also other very negative impacts
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/17/waste-from-one-bitcoin-transaction-like-binning-two-iphones wrote:Waste from one bitcoin transaction ‘like binning two iPhones’
...
While the carbon footprint of bitcoin is well studied, less attention has been paid to the vast churn in computer hardware that the cryptocurrency incentivises. ...
“The lifespan of bitcoin mining devices remains limited to just 1.29 years,” .....
“As a result, we estimate that the whole bitcoin network currently cycles through 30.7 metric kilotons of equipment per year.
Ian
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Stevek76 wrote: 17 May 2021, 3:14pm It's also of course the origin of a recent tech fad: blockchain. Exploited by tech 'consultants/entrepreneurs' (i.e. cowboys) to flog vague ideas to tech illiterate investors and then run off with their cash.
I think that's the other way round - bitcoin was proposed as a solution to the problem "what do we do with this blockchain technology"
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Tiberius
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Tiberius »

I guess that I've spent about half an hour in total 'Googling' bitcoin and how it works. I even watched a piece on Sky News re the mining of bitcoins and how there were HUGE bitcoin mining computer complexes in parts of China. These complexes were built next to rivers and dams, necessary to creat the MASSIVE amounts of hydro-electricity that these computers consumed.

I still haven't got a clue how bitcoins 'work'. It can't be just me - can it ???.... :?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Bit coin is a quorum based ledger.

Basically you don't have a central bank that says who owns which particular coin, you have a distributed system that updates the ledger once 50% + 1 of them have seen a transaction and consider it valid.

The actual coins themselves are issued as 'reward' for maintaining the ledger, although there is an element of chance (literal chance) in there as well.


Just remembered:
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
francovendee
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by francovendee »

This maybe should be another thread but here goes.
I have accepted contact less transactions and use it all the time, cash is unpopular in many places.
I'd prefer cash as it always seems safe, handing over notes or coins you were in more control of your money.

There are always reports of online banks being robbed and I wonder if counterfeiters still find it worthwhile to make false notes and coins?
Jdsk
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Re: Bitcoin...

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 8:30amThere are always reports of online banks being robbed and I wonder if counterfeiters still find it worthwhile to make false notes and coins?
That's a very interesting question.

I have no idea, but it reminded me of how high-value banknotes enable crime, and why at least one is being withdrawn:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8678979.stm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_euro_note

And the Hollywood trope of the money (or gold) in a suitcase, and all of us trying to work out if the calculation was accurate... : - )

Jonathan
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