I wonder if.......

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661-Pete
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by 661-Pete »

slowster wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 11:47am The reason why the clip below resonated with some many people, was because it did reflect the experience of far too many children of games and PE lessons at school.
Ha ha! Love that clip, watched it many times over. "And that, boys, is how to take a penalty!" :lol:

Didn't have games masters quite in that mould, though I do remember being threatened with a caning once. My sin? (Cricket again) Attempting to stop a boundary with my foot, rather than diving to take it in my hands (and sustain a broken finger maybe)....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Ben@Forest
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Ben@Forest »

Ian Wright certainly got something out of school sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPdemwaNzQ

There's a great clip where he talks about it on Desert Island Discs too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqooI8RCSEY
Tiberius
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Tiberius »

Football - I just love it, but then I would as I love just about every sport that there is.

I love sports and can watch anything, particularly if I'm watching the very best in the world playing their particular sport. I've travelled the world to watch sports, particularly F1 and MotoGP - I once did a mad dash to Australia just to catch the F1.

God knows how much I've spent watching sports (I'm not a rich man) and I don't really care. It's what I do and I love it. Time to catch up on yesterday's World Superbikes.... :D
Mike Sales
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Mike Sales »

Ben@Forest wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:02pm Ian Wright certainly got something out of school sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPdemwaNzQ

There's a great clip where he talks about it on Desert Island Discs too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqooI8RCSEY
The question is not what the talented, the winners, get out of school sports, but whether the losers, the perpetual duffers, get a discouraging experience that puts them off trying for life.
They learn that they are no good at sport, and that attempting to take part is unrewarding and humiliating.
This may well produce sofa-spectators, but it is unlikely to produce a life long appetite for exercise.
I was lucky enough to find that cycling, at my own pace, was enjoyable and rewarding. I found that many of those with originally much more athletic talent than I ever had now think that riding twenty miles is an athletic feat and deserves to be sponsored for charity.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Ben@Forest
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Ben@Forest »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:12pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:02pm Ian Wright certainly got something out of school sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPdemwaNzQ

There's a great clip where he talks about it on Desert Island Discs too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqooI8RCSEY
The question is not what the talented, the winners, get out of school sports, but whether the losers, the perpetual duffers, get a discouraging experience that puts them off trying for life.
They learn that they are no good at sport, and that attempting to take part is unrewarding and humiliating.
But the point is Ian Wright was a 'duffer' (that sounds very Johnsonian) at school. It was sport that got him out. When I was in 6th form at least two students took Oxbridge entrance exams (do they exist any more?) - but the point is they weren't duffers but got MORE attention from teachers precisely because they were intelligent (or at least had the savvy and confidence to be Oxbridge candidates). Should they not have got that attention?
Mike Sales
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Mike Sales »

Ben@Forest wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:31pm
The question is not what the talented, the winners, get out of school sports, but whether the losers, the perpetual duffers, get a discouraging experience that puts them off trying for life.
They learn that they are no good at sport, and that attempting to take part is unrewarding and humiliating.
But the point is Ian Wright was a 'duffer' (that sounds very Johnsonian) at school. It was sport that got him out. When I was in 6th form at least two students took Oxbridge entrance exams (do they exist any more?) - but the point is they weren't duffers but got MORE attention from teachers precisely because they were intelligent (or at least had the savvy and confidence to be Oxbridge candidates). Should they not have got that attention?
[/quote]

I meant a duffer at sports, and whether the way sorts are handled at school produces people who are likely to continue to enjoy taking part in sport, at whatever level and have the health benefits of doing so.
Whether the academic side of school works well is a seperate question. The idea that sport can give disadvantaged pupils a way out of deprivation is fine and often discussed. Boxing is an example often mentioned.
Coaching promising pupils for Oxbridge is common, and there is little use in trying to teach the less academic to do those entrance exams.
Sports teaching should equip pupils for a healthy life, which means enjoying physical activity, not finding that there is nothing in "games" that they enjoy or find rewarding. Being picked last and ending up on the losing side is no fun.
Lurking out of the way on the boundary is pleasant on a fine sunny day, but running in the opposite direction to the ball on muddy pitch on a cold winters day less so.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Ben@Forest
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Ben@Forest »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:50pm I meant a duffer at sports, and whether the way sorts are handled at school produces people who are likely to continue to enjoy taking part in sport, at whatever level and have the health benefits of doing so.
Whether the academic side of school works well is a seperate question. The idea that sport can give disadvantaged pupils a way out of deprivation is fine and often discussed. Boxing is an example often mentioned.
Coaching promising pupils for Oxbridge is common, and there is little use in trying to teach the less academic to do those entrance exams.
Sports teaching should equip pupils for a healthy life, which means enjoying physical activity, not finding that there is nothing in "games" that they enjoy or find rewarding. Being picked last and ending up on the losing side is no fun.
Lurking out of the way on the boundary is pleasant on a fine sunny day, but running in the opposite direction to the ball on muddy pitch on a cold winters day less so.
Definitely some duffer-dom going on with the quoting :D . I don't think there's much point in arguing this much further except to say Wright's academic performance improved because they took an interest in cultivating his sports ability. And whether Oxbridge coaching is common or not it's spending time focused on one tranche of pupils over another.
Chainwheel
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Chainwheel »

slowster
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by slowster »

What partly makes Ian Wright's story so powerful is the fact that his experience was exceptional, when it should have been commonplace. The fact that it has attracted so much attention, and has been mentioned on this thread, is itself indicative that many more people's experience of far too many teachers, not just sports teachers, was of teaching that was at best mediocre and often poor.

The implication that teachers might need to spend much more time and effort on a few who are already talented or have obvious potential, so that those pupils can achieve that potential, and in so doing neglect their pupils with less talent and aptitude is a false dilemma. Ian Wright's teacher, Mr Pigeon, was more likely to have been a damn good teacher who did the best for all his pupils.

Teaching pupils who are already interested in the subject/activity, and have an aptitude or talent for it, is easy. It is the hallmark of a lazy teacher who chooses to put more time and effort into those pupils than those who struggle. The hallmark of a good teacher is one who can motivate and engage those who have previously shown little ability.
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Hellhound
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Hellhound »

Millions of people watch and play Football all over the World.You either get it or don't!
I love a bit of Footy,don't mind Rugby but can't stand to watch Tennis or Golf.I've never really liked Cricket but can watch a bit of a game if I'm passing with the dog and there's pub across from the pitch :wink:


Now Golf.That really is a stupid 'sport' :lol:
Ben@Forest
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Ben@Forest »

slowster wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 2:13pm What partly makes Ian Wright's story so powerful is the fact that his experience was exceptional, when it should have been commonplace. The fact that it has attracted so much attention, and has been mentioned on this thread, is itself indicative that many more people's experience of far too many teachers, not just sports teachers, was of teaching that was at best mediocre and often poor.
I have to agree with that. I did myself no favours at secondary school, I didn't work anything like hard enough; but if you asked me to name an inspiring teacher who really put themselves out, there wasn't one. I was at a bog-standard comprehensive, with bog-standard teachers and was one of the 75% of the run-of-the-mill kids.

Whilst I was there apparently the school was on a shortlist for a TV documentary looking at 'bog-standard' comprehensives, it apparently didn't get chosen because being in a rural area it was nearly 100% white. I heard the first part from a teacher so have no reason to disbelieve that - the second I don't know.
ambodach
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by ambodach »

Interesting point about duffers at sport. I was quite good at sports at school apart from football.
At indoor basketball I was often picked as a team captain. I worked out that some of the duffers were actually quite good at some aspects like shooting into the net. I carefully picked a team of duffers and instructed them in what to do. The good shooter was to lurk near the net for example and when he got the ball put it straight into the net. The others had specific places to be when required. Being regarded as duffers they did what they were told and we wiped the floor with every team we played against.
Other team captains picked them afterwards but it never worked for them as they were not given specific instruction.
Tangled Metal
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by Tangled Metal »

Sounds like you were doing a bit of what the pe teacher should be doing.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Mick F wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 11:36am I'm uninterested in sport of all descriptions.
If people want to get involved with sport, and follow it avidly, that's their affair.
I couldn't care less about it, and let them get on with it.
So if they were looking for someone down at the local dog and whistle, to fill in for the quiz team you'd run off and hide in the broom cupboard :P
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I wonder if.......

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
ambodach wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 5:44pm Interesting point about duffers at sport. I was quite good at sports at school apart from football.
At indoor basketball I was often picked as a team captain. I worked out that some of the duffers were actually quite good at some aspects like shooting into the net. I carefully picked a team of duffers and instructed them in what to do. The good shooter was to lurk near the net for example and when he got the ball put it straight into the net. The others had specific places to be when required. Being regarded as duffers they did what they were told and we wiped the floor with every team we played against.
Other team captains picked them afterwards but it never worked for them as they were not given specific instruction.
Now that really is called team work isn't it.
Well done that man.
And that is what should be done with everything isn't it, including working
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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