Mike Sales wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 7:55am
Well yes, but I think that antibiotic resistant bacteria spreading is a much bigger problem than Northern Ireland border difficulties.
For future, I'll find it easier if, when you start a thread, you list the bullet points we may discuss. (In the meantime, if "border difficulties" lead to any sort of flare up, then IMO it would be a problem.)
I seem to have managed to give you the wrong impression.
I was not in any way trying to limit the discussion.
I did not say that N.I. border difficulties are not a problem, and I agree that the situation could become serious.
I do think that antibiotic resistant bacteria could become worldwide problem, which would have huge effects on medical care. It would increase mortality from minor as well as major operations. Tiny scratches could become fatal. There is every reason to think it would be a much bigger disaster than N.I., affecting every country on the planet. I think my comparing the two problems was a reasonable way to emphasise my point.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
The misuse of antibiotics generally seems to be widely-publicised yet also seems to be largely ignored ie way beyond Australian farming. Now, every misuse is to be deplored but it's hard to see that this deal will affect Australian farming practices either way; they were doing this before and will continue.
I get the impression that some people may be confusing antibiotics with growth hormones. (I've a vague memory of it being suggested that this was the reason for the height of the average Dutchman reaching six feet twelve inches.) And no, I don't suggest they are a good thing either.
simonineaston wrote: ↑16 Jun 2021, 11:01pm
...or a plant-based, pretend-burger, complete with fake blood!!
Fake blood? Won't tomato ketchup serve just as well? We put in a dash of tomato purée or paprika when we want to redden a dish, that's all. Both perfectly 'natural' foods: well, as natural as you can get these days.
What's the food industry coming to?
Incidentally, there was a scandal involving paprika adulterated with red lead (or something equally toxic) some years ago. You can never be sure!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Previously unpublished industry data seen by the Guardian, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism and Vet Record shows the use of a class of antibiotics prescribed for various infections in humans more than doubled on UK pig farms between 2015 and 2019.
According to the investigation the drugs are being administered on farms supplying pork to Tesco and Waitrose, which both insisted they are used responsibly.
Farmers have been cutting back on antibiotic use in recent years, with the amount prescribed to treat pigs in the UK falling by 62% since 2015.
But according to the data there has been an increase over the same period in the use of aminoglycosides, a class of drugs that includes gentamicin, which is used in humans to treat meningitis and infections of the blood and abdomen.
Aminoglycosides are deemed “critically important” to human health by the World Health Organization, but are used on pig farms to combat scour [diarrhoea] and other illnesses.
...
Antibiotics are still widely used in farming to prevent infection in animals its a grey area and we buy a lot of meat from south america which is likely high in antibiotics. In some ways the australian farming industry is far less intensive so has some benefits. However I still question this deal and feel moving high weight low value products around the world is completely wrong. The UK has a population density twice that of China and I feel we should be looking to reduce our population to realistic levels and becoming self-sufficient in food. We must stop relying on imports as the level of government debt is horrendous and continuing with a trade deficit adds hugely to our problems. We left the EU with about £1.8 to 1.9 trillion of debt. The government seems to be incredibly naive not all business is good business when it is balanced in favour of other countries. We need to be focusing on creating trade surpluses. The sad state of affairs is pretty much all the political parties of the UK are useless even the conservatives who claim to be the party of business seem to lack a realistic outlook. As it stands we have debt that will take about 50 years to pay off when we start to pay it off and this will be a huge hardship for the people of this country. I really can't see Australians buying much from the UK but I can see the UK buying cheap meat products in huge quantities. This will cause huge damage to UK farming I feel in addition to Irish and European farming too. The only real benefit is by lowering the price of imported meat it could actually reduce our trade deficit overall but that is unlikely to be a benefit overall if it wipes out a huge chunk of our own farming. We can all claim we will continue to buy British but when Australian beef is only £4/kg I think 99% of us will buy the cheaper meat.
I haven't bought cheap meat since I noticed my premium minced steak from a well known supermarket chain that I was frying when making bolognese sauce started to smell of urine. I thought they were taking something when they would sell meat that had pi$$ smell to it!
Since that day I pay more to get better meat from more local suppliers. I actually now buy from Booths supermarket chain as they buy meat from farms in the area they operate in and its a much better quality. You know when supermarkets put a fake name on their own brand to con people a bit. Well Booths give the name of some of their actual independent farms so you can check them out. In the butchers section for example. I knew one of their farms and it certainly isn't intensive crag they produce.
Part of the real problem here is that people don't want to or can't afford to pay for what good quality food costs. Farmers get hammered down in price by big supermarket chain buyers to drive prices down like we all want, so they really have little choice but to go intensive to keep supplying.
If you can afford it you should pay for it. If you can't you should be supported by the state so you can afford it. Good food is a necessity not a luxury but it costs more than ppl want to pay. We're part of the bigger problem I think.
A lot of South American beef is raised in feedlots the same system as used by many of our farmers producing milk. The animals never see a field. Inhumane practices also used widely in the EU. My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
al_yrpal wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 1:34pm
A lot of South American beef is raised in feedlots the same system as used by many of our farmers producing milk. The animals never see a field. Inhumane practices also used widely in the EU. My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Al
Freed from the rules - we've never had any maximum standards regulations... We could always increase the standards we used. Getting out of those rules was always to lower standards.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
al_yrpal wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 1:34pm
A lot of South American beef is raised in feedlots the same system as used by many of our farmers producing milk. The animals never see a field. Inhumane practices also used widely in the EU. My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Freed from the rules - we've never had any maximum standards regulations... We could always increase the standards we used. Getting out of those rules was always to lower standards.
Would anyone like to describe how they would explain to an intelligent but ignorant listener the constitutional process that is controlling this "Agreement in Principle" and its implications for antimicrobial resistance?
Points will be awarded for any connections to democratic principles and the recommendations of experts.
al_yrpal wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 1:34pm
My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Oh, sure! Whilst you're hoping that, I'll be hoping that pigs will fly, hens will grow teeth, and rocking-horses will produce .... well, you-know-what...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
al_yrpal wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 1:34pm
A lot of South American beef is raised in feedlots the same system as used by many of our farmers producing milk. The animals never see a field. Inhumane practices also used widely in the EU. My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Freed from the rules - we've never had any maximum standards regulations... We could always increase the standards we used. Getting out of those rules was always to lower standards.
Are, you're taking the aspirations of people concerned with welfare as opposed to the greed of politicians.
We could always have increased welfare standards - we chose not to.
What would change that decision when there is profit to be had from lowering them.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Yesterday, as the two countries' respective Prime Ministers were announcing the in-principle deal, it was also revealed that the deal will not be subject to rigorous scrutiny in the House of Commons and that MPs will not be allowed to vote on it, despite it setting the precedent for deals to come.
Yes, you read that right. This Vote Leave government, a government that cried ‘sovereignty’ and made promises not to cut regulatory standards in order to force its incoherent Brexit deal through, is now refusing to allow our sovereign Parliament any opportunity to scrutinise a deal that makes a mockery of the UK’s world-class commitment to high welfare standards for animals.
Interesting petition to sign below: We, the undersigned, call on Keir Starmer to use the next available Opposition Day to shine a light on this awful deal.
al_yrpal wrote: ↑17 Jun 2021, 1:34pm
A lot of South American beef is raised in feedlots the same system as used by many of our farmers producing milk. The animals never see a field. Inhumane practices also used widely in the EU. My hope us that freed of external rules we will become more humane to farm animals.
Al
I’ve covered quite a bit of the U.K. and I haven’t ever seen one of these SA/ USA type feed lots used here for dairy. Where are they and how many have you seen?
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